Boat Captain's rules or your own safety?

[Teamcasa]

His boat = his rules.

Your money = your choice of charter ....

Fins on while climbing the ladder is a deal breaker for me. However, I'd let the Captain know why I would no longer use or recommend his operation.

 

[Gombessa]

Sounds like it's pretty unanimous (his boat, his rules); hopefully you find another boat more amenable to your own sense of safety and common sense.

10. All divers are responsible for their own personal safety once they step
off the Eagle's Nest and enter the water.

I guess that once you touch the ladder, your own personal safety isn't up to you?

And technically I was still in the water..so is it his rules or my rules?

You're in the water, but your GF isn't. The boat is well within its rights to warn you away from approaching a climbing diver from below/behind.

 

[diverdoug1]

Captain is God. His rules are the law on the boat. It is your choice to defy those rules if you don't think your safety is in jeopardy, then it is his choice if you are allowed back on the boat.

 

[captain]

I was a captain at one time and my boat had a closed ladder. I advised divers to keep fins on until standing on the first rung of the ladder and then remove them and hand them up before climbing the rest of the way up. I can't agree with him wanting divers to climb all the was up with fins on if that is what he wants. My boat now has a split ladder and I remove my fins once I am on the first rung.

If it was calm with no current I didn't care much one way or another what they did.
Definitely didn't want anyone below someone on the ladder.

But in the end captain's word is law like it or not.

 

[DeepSeaExplorer]

Fins on while climbing the ladder is a deal breaker for me. However, I'd let the Captain know why I would no longer use or recommend his operation.

Agreed... it's the diver's responsibility to decide how to negotiate the ladder and the Captain's responsibility to get you to and from the dive safely. Fins on the wrist is SOP stuff. There is really no basis for an objection on his part.

Geeze people... it may be the Captain's boat, but it's not a Pirate ship, where you either do as the Captain says or walk the plank.

While you shouldn't get under another diver because you could get whacked, it's the Captain that put you in that position with poor equipment choices and inappropriate boat rules. (He has a ladder that you can't climb with fins on and then insists you wear fins while climbing it.)

Some ops have goofy rules. A personal dislike of mine are ops that take your tank out of the rig after the dive while you assume the position, presumably because you can't be trusted to walk without assistance. Usually, if an experienced diver objects, they'll give you a pass. That should be the case here.

 

[bracko]

how the f... do you climb a closed ladder with fins on?

I agree with the captain regarding helping your buddy though. if she's having too much trouble getting up, dump the BC on the surface and pick it up with a hook once in the boat.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

What is the reason that you are not allowed to put your fins on your wrists while hanging on the trail line and have both hands and both feet able to get on the ladder fast? Even in rough seas it is safe and much easier. Boarded boats with closed ladders in 4-6 ft seas like that. A bouncing boat is a beast you want to get both hands and at least one foot on fast. Fins on rule is asking for a lawsuit when the step you should have been standing on takes your chin up over your forehead.

Actually this bolded statement is incorrect. I've seen many people make the same mistake and have had to explain it many times, but often divers will not listen and I can't tell you how many divers I have seen to have "taken it on the chin" (the rung of the ladder that is) by trying to do what you advise.

The most important thing to do when boarding a ladder in rough seas is to time the attack and get on the ladder when it goes down. The diver needs to launch themselves onto the ladder and then STAND UP (on the bottom rung). You do NOT put one foot on the ladder or try to quickly scramble up the ladder. Very few people can support themselves on one leg when the ladder launches them vertically a moment later, using two hands will not help and clinging with the hands or trying to climb with their arms will promote a person slaming their chin into the top rung as they invariably fall from the ladder.

The goal is to get to the ladder, position both feet on the bottom rung in the moment when the ladder is on the down stroke and then very quickly stand up on both feet on the same rung. Of course you hold on with your hands, but the strength is in the legs and the knees need to be straight to support the diver. Once the diver has both feet planted and the knees locked, he is securely standing on the bottom of ladder, they can then methodically and slowly begin to climb the ladder.

Way too many people try to instantly climb a ladder one foot over the other, when what they need to do is stand up, get on the ladder and then SLOWLY climb. There is zero rush to climb the ladder. The hurry up part is catching the ladder, getting BOTH feet on the bottom rung and instantly standing up. (am I repeating myself?) Once that is accomplished the diver is pretty safe, they do need to keep their arms kinda straight to keep their face AWAY from the ladder in case a wave comes from behind and tries to throw them forward. If someone is trying to use their arms to climb a ladder, then their elbows are bent and their face is more exposed to being smashed into the ladder from a wave that hits from behind. I learned all this stuff the hard way.

Trying to hang on with one foot and two hands as the ladder thrashes you is a recipe for disaster. If you slip and loose your balance it is much safer to push away from the ladder and allow yourself to fall backwards safely away from the boat and attempt another ascent up the ladder. Trying to hang on after you have partially lost it can allow one foot to slip forward through the ladder, then the diver falls back and they are hanging upside down by one knee from one rung.

If you begin to fall off; allow yourself to do so and PLEASE, push away from the ladder as you fall so it can not come down on you a moment after you hit the water. Then, even though you are scared, pissed and embarassed, do not try to instantly board the ladder. Take a moment or two, to get situated and then make another well synchronized attack on the ladder, when it is on the down stroke.

BTW, the capt. is boss and anyone who tries to help a diver in rough seas by being under them on a ladder is incredibly foolish. Can you imgagine the damage the butt of a tank can do to your head as the diver falls 3-4 feet into you. If the women was weak and had too much trouble, then the scuba unit should be removed in the water and allow her to climb that way.

 

[aquaregia]

And technically I was still in the water..so is it his rules or my rules?

Just tell him you dive with your fins off

Geeze people... it may be the Captain's boat, but it's not a Pirate ship, where you either do as the Captain says or walk the plank.

The way I was brought up, if the Captain tells you to wear his parrot you either do it or swim home.

 

[Gilldiver]

Dumpster pretty much summed it up, as I said in the other thread I have seen many more divers hurt, sometimes badly, at the boat then I have ever seen or heard about getting hurt under the water.

As for falling off the ladder, it’s not just the diver in the water that can be hurt, the falling diver can be as well if they hit another diver. I once saw a diver get launched off the ladder backward and fall on another diver, in doing so he took the manifold of the divers tank in the back of the head and was just about knocked out. In that instant we went from a simple fall to a rescue of a diver in danger of drowning with probable concussion.

So, how would you have felt if your girlfriend had hit you or taken your tank valve/reg in the head?

Stay out from under another diver and always give the ladder and swim platform respect or sooner or later you will pay a price you don’t want to pay.

 

[scubafanatic]

I've dove MANY times in the Texas Flower Gardens, using 3 different liveaboards there over the years, in seas as high or higher than anything you've dove 'up' in New York...as well as North Carolina wreck diving, and I've NEVER been forced (or even asked) to reboard a boat with fins on! Boarding a boat with fins on is completely SPECIAL ED! ABSURD !!! DUMB !!!

.....I will agree with the captain about divers in the water staying the heck away from other divers exiting the water though....leave a reasonable, safe distance between the diver exiting the water and the other divers waiting their turns to reboard the boat.