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His boat, his rules.
His loss as I'll take my money elsewhere. I'm not ever going to climb a closed ladder with fins on no matter what any captain says. He could kick me off his boat and I'd be happy to go.
If the captain wants people to not hold on to the ladder while removing fins, why not throw out a tag line? Or why not get an open ladder?
At this point, I merely remove my fins from my wrists, put them back on, and swim back to the boat. Although I find that if I don't try to climb the ladder with fins on in the first place, I've never fallen off.
His loss as I'll take my money elsewhere. I'm not ever going to climb a closed ladder with fins on no matter what any captain says. He could kick me off his boat and I'd be happy to go.
If the captain wants people to not hold on to the ladder while removing fins, why not throw out a tag line? Or why not get an open ladder?
At this point, I merely remove my fins from my wrists, put them back on, and swim back to the boat. Although I find that if I don't try to climb the ladder with fins on in the first place, I've never fallen off.
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The Captain appears to be a rather strange fellow, rules or no rules I can't imagine using his boat.
How I decide to board the boat is my decision, it is part of how I choose to dive. I choose to take off my tank and weightbelt and clip them to a line, put my fins on my wrists, hang onto a tag line till the ladder's clear and the climb aboard. I am happy to discuss my preferred procedures and modify them if there is a good reason, but I'm not going to climb aboard in a fashion that I feel is dangerous just because he says, "I'm the Captain!"
How I decide to board the boat is my decision, it is part of how I choose to dive. I choose to take off my tank and weightbelt and clip them to a line, put my fins on my wrists, hang onto a tag line till the ladder's clear and the climb aboard. I am happy to discuss my preferred procedures and modify them if there is a good reason, but I'm not going to climb aboard in a fashion that I feel is dangerous just because he says, "I'm the Captain!"
DeepSeaExplorer
Contributor
I don't disagree at all... I'm just saying there needs to be a reasonable distiction between life-safety of passengers vs. an attitude of exit the water the way I demand or swim home. I think in this case, the Capt has created an unsafe Catch-22 situation. I won't even get into that whole shooting off guns stuff - and I'm a bit of a gun nut.
In my refererence to the crew, I was saying he can treat them with that Master of the Ship attitude if he wants, it's his business. But, he needs to chill a bit with the paying customers. And, in fairness to him, it was really coming from other posters, since as far as I know he hasn't actually posted here. I was attempting to get people thinking and perhaps reconsider the acceptableness of that attitude themselves.
I would have never gotten in the water, or on a boat, with this man, diving or not diving. Yes it is his boat, his rules, etc....Until he puts someone into a perceived situation of imminent death or serious injury. If I'm being force to do something that I feel is going to get me seriously hurt unnecessarily, you can go bite yourself, I'm not going to do it.
Now if it's to save someone life, an emergency, or another situation where it will get me hurt doing it, or get someone else seriously hurt in the process, that's a different story....
My opinion, from someone who grew up on boats, but not scuba diving:
You where in the wrong for going out with the man, knowing his practices, attitude, and that they did not line up with what you knew was safe.
He was in the wrong for having asinine boat practices, no assistance in high seas, and generally disregarding real threat for perceived threat.
Now if it's to save someone life, an emergency, or another situation where it will get me hurt doing it, or get someone else seriously hurt in the process, that's a different story....
My opinion, from someone who grew up on boats, but not scuba diving:
You where in the wrong for going out with the man, knowing his practices, attitude, and that they did not line up with what you knew was safe.
He was in the wrong for having asinine boat practices, no assistance in high seas, and generally disregarding real threat for perceived threat.
Gilldiver
Contributor
Howard has Howard's rules, its his boat and he has been running it safely his way for more years then most of you, Thal excepted, have been diving. He has one of the more comfortable boats in the NJ/NY area and always has. Howard also has a hard and fast rule about wet gear in the cabin; you want to debate that also?
For all you experienced divers who say his rules are unsafe, climbing a ladder is unsafe, using an enclosed ladder is unsafe, etc., ect. Please reference one, only one case where climbing an enclosed ladder resulted in injury. Please reference one case where climbing a ladder with fins on resulted in injury.
I can report personal and eye witness accounts where trying to get on a bucking ladder, enclosed and T style, without fins has resulted in injury, once to myself.
99.9998% of the posts in this thread have been opinion only or from people with little experience off of boats in blue water rough weather/diving conditions.
For all you experienced divers who say his rules are unsafe, climbing a ladder is unsafe, using an enclosed ladder is unsafe, etc., ect. Please reference one, only one case where climbing an enclosed ladder resulted in injury. Please reference one case where climbing a ladder with fins on resulted in injury.
I can report personal and eye witness accounts where trying to get on a bucking ladder, enclosed and T style, without fins has resulted in injury, once to myself.
99.9998% of the posts in this thread have been opinion only or from people with little experience off of boats in blue water rough weather/diving conditions.
I captain a dive boat in the Keys. Here's my take when you dive my boat...
Fins on, fins off, I really don't care. I'll suggest to you what I think is the best way, but am I going to get upset if your way isn't my way on something that's such a non-issue.
People ask if they HAVE to wear a snorkel. Jeez, you are a grown person, do what you want. You know you're own ability. I'll make my suggestion, but ultimately, you are here to have fun, and I am here to make money. Let's both do that as safely as possible.
Fins on, fins off, I really don't care. I'll suggest to you what I think is the best way, but am I going to get upset if your way isn't my way on something that's such a non-issue.
People ask if they HAVE to wear a snorkel. Jeez, you are a grown person, do what you want. You know you're own ability. I'll make my suggestion, but ultimately, you are here to have fun, and I am here to make money. Let's both do that as safely as possible.
OP
redacted
Guest
I am in awe at what a skilled historian and researcher can do with a sample size of 45.
- Messages
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OP
redacted
Guest
That's just because my little finger knows more about boat diving than does the rest of me.
but I do wonder where one must put that little finger to retrieve a statistic like that.
If fins on when climbing the ladder is part of the contract, then climb the ladder with fins on or don't enter into the contract. If fins on is added after the contract is entered, then it is not part of the contract. If the captain insists that he can do that ---- well, that is one reason I use a credit card to pay for such things.
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