Blue Heron Bridge Trolls

[danvolker]

They should also ban ground swells and torrential rainstorms in the area that contribute to bad vis in a much more significant manner than the rototillers.

You are welcome to lobby for this..... I think my suggestions have far more likelihood of being embraced by the county

---------- Post added July 16th, 2014 at 12:07 PM ----------

Soon we will see toll booths going up and we will have to pay to park and dive. Good luck on this one. Ed t

And both the Parks and the now embedded operator are dead set AGAINST ever charging divers to dive.
Doing business without a permit on Park property has ALWAYS been illegal there, but there was no sense of how to enforce it.

 

[T.C.]

TC,
I think you are dead on in guessing how the other shops will deal with this...but the Park service is planning on using this Dive operator it placed in the park, as the initial authority....with the LEO's to be directed by them....meaning the Park Rangers and Sherifs will work with the embedded shop. If some central Florida shop tells the embedded shop to pound salt, they will walk on the bottom if they want to....the embedded shop can tell the park rangers that this Central Fl shop can not longer dive with students at the park....the park will be enforcing laws on business being done at the park, at the discretion of the embedded shop...the law is already on the books that a dive class at the bridge is either something that must be permitted, or is illegal. The permit can be revoked.

While I agree that having someone to monitor this is a good idea, I'm not sure if a business who's profit margin depends on attracting people in a highly competitive field is the best enforcer. What would probably result was a fight that would probably go to the courts as one shop can rightfully claim another was given the ability to deny them business. And who is to enforce the rules on the "enforcer" shop- can we guarantee that their divers will be perfect? Or will the power to control the reports lead them to selective blindness when they're involved- with the corresponding smugness that they can do no evil?

One shop trying to regulate another, especially with official backing is starting to sound like a recipie for disaster.

And this will still do nothing for the swarms of barely trained divers that have poor bouyancy skills.

I would love to see them have to pay through the nose to bring classes here.....Now if the Park charged $130 per student, per day..and issued a Script of $100 to each student that was redeemable for restaurant food or hotel use....then suddenly this group would have a tourism benefit, and no longer be all bad for the greater good

I don't think that would be a good idea. $30 a day to dive is still a significant cost to some people, and there are many that can't pony up $130 on demand.

And what about people like Jenny, jimw, djtimmy, DiveDivaDM, MrChen or the numerous other local, responsible divers who live nearby and don't spend $100 anytime they're diving there? They may spend 20-30 bucks at the local bar after a dive (less if I've been diving with them )- and they'll never recoup all that extra credit.

 

[danvolker]

While I agree that having someone to monitor this is a good idea, I'm not sure if a business who's profit margin depends on attracting people in a highly competitive field is the best enforcer. What would probably result was a fight that would probably go to the courts as one shop can rightfully claim another was given the ability to deny them business. And who is to enforce the rules on the "enforcer" shop- can we guarantee that their divers will be perfect? Or will the power to control the reports lead them to selective blindness when they're involved- with the corresponding smugness that they can do no evil?

One shop trying to regulate another, especially with official backing is starting to sound like a recipie for disaster.

And this will still do nothing for the swarms of barely trained divers that have poor bouyancy skills.


I don't think that would be a good idea. $30 a day to dive is still a significant cost to some people, and there are many that can't pony up $130 on demand.

And what about people like Jenny, jimw, djtimmy, DiveDivaDM, MrChen or the numerous other local, responsible divers who live nearby and don't spend $100 anytime they're diving there? They may spend 20-30 bucks at the local bar after a dive (less if I've been diving with them )- and they'll never recoup all that extra credit.

First, I just pulled these numbers out of nowhere, for the example....and second...and more importantly, I thought I had clarified that there would be NO COST to divers not engaged in selling a service( like instruction) at the bridge....it will always be free to the trolls, and to dive tourists.....ALSO...this line of thinking is MY line of thinking...I have no idea what the new shop will think about my idea......
I just dont see the shops that bring students and tanks and lunch, as tourists.
These shops are illegally selling a service at the BHB, without a permit. Finally this is about to change.....how much they are about to be charged for their permits, I have no idea. I only indicated that I'd like it to be enough to remove the shops with a serious anti-tourism and anti-local effect.

---------- Post added July 16th, 2014 at 12:58 PM ----------

While I agree that having someone to monitor this is a good idea, I'm not sure if a business who's profit margin depends on attracting people in a highly competitive field is the best enforcer. What would probably result was a fight that would probably go to the courts as one shop can rightfully claim another was given the ability to deny them business. And who is to enforce the rules on the "enforcer" shop- can we guarantee that their divers will be perfect? Or will the power to control the reports lead them to selective blindness when they're involved- with the corresponding smugness that they can do no evil?

In any event, it has already happened...the County signed the contracts, and the new shop has already begun operation.
Now all that is left is interacting with the new guys, to help ensure that they are acting with the will of the majority of the local divers.
Which is why I would suggest you and Scuba Jenny, and jimw, and Djtimmy, and Divadiva, MrChen, Anne Dupont and the Nudie Girls, and all the other regulars --- make up a wish list that you would want to share with the new guys.
You can be certain they will be monitoring this thread

 

[T.C.]

First, I just pulled these numbers out of nowhere, for the example....and second...and more importantly, I thought I had clarified that there would be NO COST to divers not engaged in selling a service( like instruction) at the bridge....it will always be free to the trolls, and to dive tourists.
I just dont see the shops that bring students and tanks and lunch, as tourists.
These shops are illegally selling a service at the BHB, without a permit. Finally this is about to change.....how much they are about to be charged for their permits, I have no idea. I only indicated that I'd like it to be enough to remove the shops with a serious anti-tourism and anti-local effect.

Well, then...Let me introduce you to my 20 friends! We all met at my shop, and since they're my Friends, I'm not charging to teach them- aren't I a great guy? (Chorus of cheers, men enthusiastically shake my hand, single women swoon at my generous offer.. :d)

Since I'm not conducting business, I don't need no stinking permit. We're all just tourists here; and enjoying a great cookout to boot. What's that you say; you know they paid me? Well, since that was back at my shop, and outside your jurisdiction to enforce...prove it. By the way, next week? My other 20 friends will be along too!

Face it, these people are tourists. Just because they don't spend the amount of money you like doesn't mean they should be discriminated against. They're not illegally selling anything at the bridge- the sale was made at a different site. There isn't a law against instruction without a permit, is there?

So what if they save money by not getting fills, and bringing their own food? That's their perogative- not your business. You don't know where they are staying; if they are getting fills or where they bought their food. That's their business; not mine; not yours, not the governments. What about all the other people who show up to grill food? They may not have bought food locally; should we kick them out, too? Or require a grilling permit? After all; they're taking business from the local restaurants too.

I've got a better solution. Make a permit required for all instruction, but you can get one for free at the site at the enforcer's shack; simply by showing your Instructor Card and signing a Diving Best Practices agreement- where all these (diving) things are banned. If you or your students violate it repeatedly after warnings; you're no longer welcome to teach there- and your name goes on a list. All divers must show their card, and sign the waiver. Hell; you could even do this online; make an app to do it, and you get a number that can be quickly referenced if there's a question. This also reduces the County's liability. Make the shops that want to play cop responsible for manning and paying. They can take donations, but don't charge people for having a good time.

---------- Post added July 16th, 2014 at 11:27 AM ----------

Which is why I would suggest you and Scuba Jenny, and jimw, and Djtimmy, and Divadiva, MrChen, Anne Dupont and the Nudie Girls, and all the other regulars --- make up a wish list that you would want to share with the new guys.
You can be certain they will be monitoring this thread

Sure, I can give my..wait, what? Who?

I need to get back down to the bridge....
I think some introductions may be in order, danvolker.

 

[djtimmy77]

T.C.....they make my nudibranch spotting skills look like child's play.

I too would be against charging people there too. It is a public park, keep it free for everyone.

 

[Biminitwist]

Not to get sucked into this but it will be a question of jurisdiction.
They won't be sworn officers and can do no more than any civilian in regards to reporting Actual breaking of the law vs "things we wish wouldn't happen".
We need to ban collection of tropical fish and enforce it.
IF they can enact it then that will fall to the park ranger or FWC, whoever reports it.
I am adding FWC's number to my speed dial but it usually happens when we are far from the car.
I know Dan has always lobbied for making BHB a sanctuary, I just don't think a dive kiosk will we much of a substitute.
John

Think Sandra has better shots (we were quite shallow and surge was an issue) but Kelly was kind enough to share this;

 

[danvolker]

I am thinking they can be like COPS...Citizens On Patrol....hopefully not like the movie parody
They can interface with the LEO's enough to know what to call the LEO's about, to keep the law enforcement officers expecting each call from them to be important. They will know the criteria, and they have already been given special status by the Park service....

The permit issue has existed for a long time....no shop should have been conducting dive classes at the BHB, without a permit. Before, there was no sense of how to begin to enforce it.,..TC raised some good points they will need to consider, before it will make any sense to try and begin enforcing this.
The collection of fish issue is critical, and I think most here will be happy to have these guys wandering around, looking for illegal collectors--with cell phone in hand

We are also getting an army of little local kids, that are learning about how amazing the life is at the BHB, and how it is their birthright to protect....It won't be long, before this group is large enough to see and alert on practically any attempted collector!

 

[Biminitwist]

Any ID confirmation from our hardcore turtle specialists (Jenny) would be appreciated!

 

[Biminitwist]

Lots of other interesting and equally frustrating critters in 3 feet to photograph included things like this juvenile tripletail
Poor shot but another first for us at the bridge. Would fit on my pinky nail....
Kevin are you back in your van yet???

 

[mntlblok]

This is another first for us, Kelly only got one shot before it vanished into the sand.
Was SO happy we got a proof of life pic. Check that crazy dorsal fin!
I will be Keeping a "sharp" myopic eye out for another in the future...
I think they are fairly rare given we have never seen one in all our day and night dives there.

Good grief. . .

---------- Post added July 16th, 2014 at 03:44 PM ----------

Lots of other interesting and equally frustrating critters in 3 feet to photograph included things like this juvenile tripletail
Poor shot but another first for us at the bridge. Would fit on my pinky nail....
Kevin are you back in your van yet???

Was gonna guess tripletail - though I've never seen one of *any* age. Some pretty dern cool finds. Does the southwest area still look dead??

Kinda worn out from driving to tennis tournaments - and another one coming weekend after next. But, I'm still dubious of my ability to find that kind of cool stuff. You just don't *know* myopic. . .