Blacktip Scooter- Limited To Weighting, Buoyancy and Trim

[Scuba Cobra]

Yeah, I would think it would be a tube extension that fits in between the base and the existing tube, along with a short extension cable to plug into the wiring.

Personally, I would rather pay a bit more and just have a longer replacement tube, so I'm not adding more opportunities for a leak. Especially if the longer tube came with 4 battery slots....

Less potential for leaks is definitely something that would appeal to me, but look at the Piranha series. Those things have o rings every 2 inches it seems.

I do not believe we will ever see a PTB with more than 2 ports due to the "Ping Pong" effect Dive X is worried about.

 

[stuartv]

Less potential for leaks is definitely something that would appeal to me, but look at the Piranha series. Those things have o rings every 2 inches it seems.

I do not believe we will ever see a PTB with more than 2 ports due to the "Ping Pong" effect Dive X is worried about.

What is this Ping Pong effect you're talking about?

The Piranhas have 4 ports in each slice. So, you said "a PTB with more than 2", but did you mean "a BlackTip with more than 2"?

 

[Scuba Cobra]

Sorry, I meant a scooter with a PTB rack that holds 4.

I know the pahrana holds 4/8/12 batteries, but they had mentioned it on a post when I said something about wishing it had a longer tube and additional battery ports. Something about the batteries "ping pong" their charges back and fourth to try and keep equal voltage.

I am not going to pretend to know why one (P1-3) would be ok the the Sierra/cuda/BT wouldnt. Maybe worth asking on the facebook page.

 

[stuartv]

Sorry, I meant a scooter with a PTB rack that holds 4.

I know the pahrana holds 4/8/12 batteries, but they had mentioned it on a post when I said something about wishing it had a longer tube and additional battery ports. Something about the batteries "ping pong" their charges back and fourth to try and keep equal voltage.

I am not going to pretend to know why one (P1-3) would be ok the the Sierra/cuda/BT wouldnt. Maybe worth asking on the facebook page.

Ah. I see what you mean. And yeah.... I think that exceeds my level of "think I could possibly provide useful feedback." In other words, I don't see how anything I say about that is going to be of any use to the engineers at Dive-X. I'm pretty sure they could build one with 4 battery packs. But, if they say they can't, I'll take that with the unspoken add-on "within the time/space/budget constraints that we have for this product." Which probably boils down to, "we can't add that capability and keep the price where it needs to be."

If more batteries happens, that would be awesome. But, if it doesn't, the 12Ah batteries really do seem like they'll meet all my current needs. And it seems there is a real possibility that DeWalt will come out with a 15Ah battery at some point...

I'm MUCH more interested in having it trim out level. That has a material effect on me on every dive with this scooter. (all 3 of them so far LOL)

One of my primary interests in diving is underwater photography. I have a pretty large camera rig. I would like to be able to scooter to somewhere where I want to take pictures, then put the scooter aside and take pictures. Not necessarily clip the scooter off somewhere, but keep it clipped to me. I think. I'm new to scooters, so I fully expect my current vision will be heavily altered by "reality".

Just the fact that, as soon as I stop, the scooter flips up into my field of view (i.e. in the way of my camera) seems like it will be annoying. In my mind's eye, it seems like would be nice to scooter along, stop, let go of the scooter, have it stay just where it is when I let go, raise my camera and adjust strobe positions, then shoot as much as I want, stow the camera, and resume scootering. Without having to "maneuver" the scooter around to deal with its attitude (ha ha!).

 

[Scuba Cobra]

I tend to keep my scooters just ever so slightly positive, and when I need it out of the way I just push it down between my legs and it floats up behind my but like a clipped off stage does.

 

[stuartv]

I tend to keep my scooters just ever so slightly positive, and when I need it out of the way I just push it down between my legs and it floats up behind my but like a clipped off stage does.

That sounds like a pretty good approach. I guess I could do that in salt water. But, in fresh water, my BT is dead neutral (with 12Ah batteries and nothing added but a single bolt snap on the nose) with all the internal weight plates removed. So, no way to make it positive at all without changing to smaller batteries.

 

[Scuba Cobra]

That sounds like a pretty good approach. I guess I could do that in salt water. But, in fresh water, my BT is dead neutral (with 12Ah batteries and nothing added but a single bolt snap on the nose) with all the internal weight plates removed. So, no way to make it positive at all without changing to smaller batteries.

Have you considered taking a technical DPV course?

If you are on the trigger and decide you want to stoo you can basically click your wrist to turn your scooter around and run it up in between your legs, and just squeeze it with your thighs. You can then conduct all your kicks as necessary.

Then the trigger is right where you can always access it when you pull it back out in front of you.

 

[Scuba Cobra]

Right at 0:40 is a good example of what I mean.

 

[stuartv]

Have you considered taking a technical DPV course?

If you are on the trigger and decide you want to stoo you can basically click your wrist to turn your scooter around and run it up in between your legs, and just squeeze it with your thighs. You can then conduct all your kicks as necessary.

Then the trigger is right where you can always access it when you pull it back out in front of you.

Yes. I am working on getting a Tech DPV class scheduled for myself. I think @DA Aquamaster probably taught me everything I need to know on Saturday. But, I'd still like to do a formal class to make sure there is not anything else that I need to know.

Also, I watched that same GUE video last week. I even tried that maneuver of turning it and putting it nose-up between my thighs the other day. I think I just need to practice that some more now that I'm more comfortable driving the thing and have the tow cord setup better. When I tried it, frog kicking and back kicking did not immediately feel natural. But, I only did it for a few seconds.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Yes. I am working on getting a Tech DPV class scheduled for myself. I think @DA Aquamaster probably taught me everything I need to know on Saturday. But, I'd still like to do a formal class to make sure there is not anything else that I need to know.

Also, I watched that same GUE video last week. I even tried that maneuver of turning it and putting it nose-up between my thighs the other day. I think I just need to practice that some more now that I'm more comfortable driving the thing and have the tow cord setup better. When I tried it, frog kicking and back kicking did not immediately feel natural. But, I only did it for a few seconds.

We covered some of the basic open water DOV skills, but there are some more open water skills to cover, and there's a LOT more to learn in terms of technical and cave DPV use. Published standards vary, but a tech or cave DPV course should be no less than two dives per day for a minimum of three days and four or five is better.

It helps if you can drive the scooter proficiently before you arrive, but IMHO, a good technical or cave DPV course should include:

Basic Pre-dive skills and academics

- Dive planning including gas planning and management, battery planning and management, and deco and contingency planning. (This is arguably the most important portion of the class)
- Suitable DPV conditions
- Suitable versus non suitable passages
- DPV etiquette
- DPV impact and environmental considerations (You'll all too often see evidence of divers failing to minimize DPV impact in caves, by scootering either in areas where they should not, or in areas that demand more skill than they possess)
- Proper DPV rigging (you'll find some common aspects as well as some variation by both instructor and DPV)
- Pre-dive DPV checks (varies by DPV)

Basic dives skills while operating a DPV:

- Buoyancy and trim using a DPV
- Monitoring the SPG and dive computer, and as appropriate, monitoring PPO2, regulator switching, etc
- Using a primary light while operating a DPV, including light signals while operating a DPV
- Dropping, securing and retrieving a DPV
- Line following and team order and position with a DPV
- Maintaining team integrity with a DPV
- Placing and retrieving primary and jump lines with a DPV (Unfortunately it's common to see cave DPV divers not using continuous guide lines or markers, and it has resulted in fatalities)
- Zero visibility techniques, including clipping off and retrieving a DPV in zero visibility
- Carrying, managing, using, and placing staged gas or bailout gas using a DPV
- Entanglement avoidance
- Collision avoidance

Managing DPV malfunctions and failures:

- Managing a run away DPV (some skills asre standard, and others vary by DPV)
- Towing a second diver with and without the disabled DPV in tow (and knowing when to just leave a dead DPV so you live to retrieve it another day)
- Managing light failures with a DPV
- Addressing entanglement and propeller entanglement issues with a DPV (varies a bit by DPV).
- Team separation

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In the past, it was common for cave divers to just start using a DPV in a cave after about 100 full cave dives, with or without mentorship and absent a formal cave DPV class. That's changing, in part due to cave DPV fatalities due to mistakes ranging from lack of use of markers and continuous line to poor gas planning, to poor placement of staged gas.