Biggest thing killing dive shops?

[Jonny Wishbone]

Online purchasing is a major kill to LDS. I'm guilty of buying online too. Its too bad LDS don't have lower prices for an over the counter purchase as opposed to online. Kinda like "we will beat any online price you find". If a LDS were to give a deal on 1 item I will bet that customer will spend more money there over time instead of going online. To buy quality gear is not cheap and people try to save a buck where ever they can these days. I buy my tanks at LDS because its a heavy item to ship. After the sale all they ever get is air fill sales, vip's and hydros. Not gonna eat steak from air fill sales. Also the younger generation of today are more electronics addicts than the go out and scuba dive type and they are lazy so the sport is lacking people with interest in it. Also, if you have been diving long enough you have no doubt gotten your regs back in worse shape than when you brought them in for servicing which leads us to learn to service and tune our own regs. Theres more money the LDS doesn't get. Then they wont sell you any service kits or parts in hopes you reconsider and bring the regs in anyway for service. Again, more money they don't get coming in their front door. Anyone ever go in a LDS and start talking to the person behind the counter just to be interupted buy a phone call where they then turned their attention to the customer on the phone instead of you, and you were there first before the customer called but now you have to wait. You can go online and just click click click and fill up your cart and checkout with no one bothering you. Online in some cases is better customer service than the discruntled guy behind the counter at the LDS.

 

[jonnierowe]

I think the amazon's, ebays, manufacturers who sell direct to the customer, etc are hurting shops the same as they are hurting a ton of smaller retailers across the country. They take a huge percent of the profit from sales and you can see from the number of reviews on products on these sites that a ton of people are buying their gear online.

Dive shop owners and employees who have bad attitudes are hurting their own businesses as well. What many dive shop owners don't realize is that there is little loyalty from customers. Like many have mentioned, if a person has a bad experience getting oversold, treated poorly, or gets bad service from a shop, why would they come back?

Customers need to feel good about supporting a local business. If they get to know the dive shop owner and see that he is supporting the local community back, then that helps. If they see the owner being a pompous prick of course they won't. If they get to know the shops instructors, go on dive trips with them and know them on a personal level then that helps. If the instructors and shop employees are unapproachable and have a superiority complex, why would they want to spend anymore time with them?When all things are equal (price, selection, etc), of course they will support local and the people they know. Why anyone would expect a customer to pay more for mediocre service to a non-personable shop/staff is beyond me.

I work making websites and helping with marketing for several retail dive shops and also destination dive shops in other countries who are all doing quite well but who need to keep very busy and who take advantage of all kinds of different revenue streams. If you're not taking advantage of destination travel, online shopping (on your own site and other ecommerce platforms), maintenance and servicing, air fills, local trips, training, etc. Then you are behind the 8 ball. If you aren't actively recruiting new divers and certifying them and converting them into long term customers, you are behind the 8 ball. If you are only stocking a few brands and have a limited inventory of sizes, colors, etc. people will seek out more selection online. That;s how it works.

I know amazon and ebays are hurting the dive retailers but if you aren't selling on and taking advantage of the platform, someone else will. The Amazons and Ebays take 15% of your sale which is a huge % of your profit, but if you can find a way to treat those customers exceptionally well and leave an impression, then maybe they buy from you direct the next time they need a piece of dive gear or want to go on a trip, then I think you can look at that as an ok price to pay.

Like many have said, the dive shops who do adapt and are taking advantage of all the new ways to make money, who put a real effort into advertising their businesses online, who build a strong relationship and community among their existing divers, and who continue to gain new customers will continue to grow (and keep quiet), while the people who stick to the same old same old will continue to fail and wonder why.

 

[arew+4]

Mostly I think it's purely economics and diving in its entirety not just local dive shops. The pool of prospective divers is shrinking. It is an equipment and travel intensive activity. Aside from the lucky few who live within an hour of diverse dive sites, high quality local diving is not very plentiful. The person who can dive the same low vis muck hole (not meant to be derogatory) month after month is the exception, and more power to them. Most folks probably have to drive two hours or more each way making for a very long day or adding a hotel/motel stay to the dives driving the cost of a two tank dive well over $200. If you look at income distributions and average budgets. There are not a whole lot of people with required discretionary income to support a serious diving habit. Vacation diving starts to look more affordable, you can get a week in paradise including 10 dives or more from $1500pp or so plus air. Even still that is a large expense, for a single person with a decent job, let alone some one with a family.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

When dive shops are held to manufacurers demands to hold a certain price schedule, and the internet can sell the same stuff but grey market for a lot less, this puts the LDS at a huge disadvantage. Scubapro for instance requires that their authorized dealers must maintain 100% markup on their products. When a dive shop gives you the allowable 10% off on gear they are still at 100% markup! If they go lower to be competitive they can lose their dealerships. This is a very heavy handed policy placed upon a business who are required to buy stuff outright. Technically they are the owners of those products and should be able to do as they wish, but the manufacturers won’t let them. This should be illegal.
I suppose they could carry off brand stuff that don’t have those policies, but then they don’t get to sell main brand stuff.

 

[divinh]

When dive shops are held to manufacurers demands to hold a certain price schedule, and the internet can sell the same stuff but grey market for a lot less, this puts the LDS at a huge disadvantage. Scubapro for instance requires that their authorized dealers must maintain 100% markup on their products. When a dive shop gives you the allowable 10% off on gear they are still at 100% markup! If they go lower to be competitive they can lose their dealerships. This is a very heavy handed policy placed upon a business who are required to buy stuff outright. Technically they are the owners of those products and should be able to do as they wish, but the manufacturers won’t let them. This should be illegal.
I suppose they could carry off brand stuff that don’t have those policies, but then they don’t get to sell main brand stuff.

Apple enforces prices too and if you don't play, you don't carry their products. Businesses get around this is by offering extras (screen protectors, holders, etc.), store credit cards and discounts on other items at time of purchase. Couldn't LDS'es do that same?

 

[scubadada]

Apple enforces prices too and if you don't play, you don't carry their products. Businesses get around this is by offering extras (screen protectors, holders, etc.), store credit cards and discounts on other items at time of purchase. Couldn't LDS'es do that same?

Some do, "free" add ons

 

[dmaziuk]

Vacation diving starts to look more affordable, you can get a week in paradise including 10 dives or more from $1500pp or so plus air. Even still that is a large expense, for a single person with a decent job, let alone some one with a family.

Our shops organize dive trips to paradise. But so does SB, online. Ergo, ScubaBoard is killing dive shops.

 

[BDSC]

Our shops organize dive trips to paradise. But so does SB, online. Ergo, ScubaBoard is killing dive shops.

One of the reasons I started organizing dive trips, and this goes back to listening to your customers, is many of the local shops kept doing the same trips over and over during the same week over and over. Even when approached with other ideas there would be no thought of something new because the "usual trips" were doing just fine. Now only one LDS runs more trips than I do.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Apple enforces prices too and if you don't play, you don't carry their products. Businesses get around this is by offering extras (screen protectors, holders, etc.), store credit cards and discounts on other items at time of purchase. Couldn't LDS'es do that same?

Sure Apple enforces price schedules and I suppose shops could throw in non regulated freebies. But what if there was a place on the internet that would sell you a grey market Apple product for a third less than retail because they got the item for half price from a European source and are not restricted from cut rate pricing because they are not an “authorized dealer”. That’s what I’m talking about.

 

[ystrout]

One of the problems that also occurs is people go into dive shops, check out the product, then go buy online. I want to strangle such people. This is just incredibly unfair and unethical (checking out the product and buying online, not the strangling part).

Why? If online products are cheaper, why wouldn't you buy online? Most people don't go into the store to check stuff out then go home and purchase online... If the store is price competitive and they're already there, they'll purchase.

We did exactly what you said this weekend. My girlfriend is getting super into skiing since I have been taking her up with me so much this winter. We were in Mammoth last weekend, and she decided it's time she buys gear and stops renting. At a local shop in Mammoth, she paid $650 for a pair of boots and was going to get the skiis there too. Turns out the exact same, new pair of boots costs $500 on Evo. We returned the boots next morning and ordered online.

The sales people were super helpful and knowledgeable, but it's not our job to make sure they stay afloat. Brick and mortar stores need a business model that does that for them.