Biggest thing killing dive shops?

[Trace Malinowski]

How to choose the right ffolkes to teach you to dive.

http://dai.ly/x57wygv

 

[markmud]

I would like to remind the pros on here that potential students might use this forum to “interview” prospective instructors. Just sayin’.

I’m seeing a lot of negativity, disillusionment, slotting divers into categories and “us” vs “them”. Not very conducive to a happy learning environment, me thinks.

Hi Dogbowl,

I don't necessarily notice some of the negativity, disillusionment, and slotting of divers into categories. Nor do I read an "us" verses "them" mentality.

I am seeing reality written on these pages. Some have differing opinions as to the health level of diving. Some have differing opinions as to root causes and solutions to either perceived problems or real issues.

As a trained project manager, we always perform a post mortem on projects, and sometimes on different aspects of the same project. After every political presentation (to Boards of Supervisors and City Councils), we performed a post mortem on the event. We got SME opinions and citizen feed back. It was healthy, and sometimes it hurt. Sometimes it hurt personally. Our projects became better projects because of the negative feedback (some call it constructive criticism).

I believe you are witnessing such a post mortem right now.

I am a Hobbyist diver who is sick and tired of a system that gave me cert cards that mean nothing. Everywhere I dive I have some interaction with a so-called pro who wants to evaluate my diving skills infinitely, or criticize my kit. Until the last day when they tell me I am a good diver and that I should come back so we can dive advanced dive sites.

Why the hell did I fly half way around the globe--to dive the swimming pool? And trust me, I have had written agreements with dive-ops to go to specified advanced sites. Before I left my home. Moorea, Monterey, St. Croix, Costa Rica, et allia. There is always a reason why we should dive the shallow beat-up reef...always a reason.

So, some of us want the diving community to change for the better. Constructive criticism is the starting point.

I want my certifications to mean something. I don't care what hoops I have to jump through. The very first comprehensive diving course that I took was Tech 40 at 160 dives. Maybe that's why dive ops don't recognize me as good diver...my certs are from the cert mill (you know, like a puppy mill).

thanks,
markm
PS: I hope was not too negative, critical, or stereotypical for you!

 

[Wookie]

I can tell you, if someone showed up on my op with Andy's card, they could dive sidemount with no further questions asked. But usually they look like a recent picture posted on this very board, and therefore all sidemount divers were painted with the same brush (Widemount, etc).

 

[Dogbowl]

I can tell you, if someone showed up on my op with Andy's card, they could dive sidemount with no further questions asked. But usually they look like a recent picture posted on this very board, and therefore all sidemount divers were painted with the same brush (Widemount, etc).

I cannot agree with you more. I have no doubt Andy’s students will be taught well by a very qualified instructor, but an instructor who has no respect for potential students at the outset loses respect in my books, no matter how good he is at his job.

 

[Trace Malinowski]

I want my certification to mean something. I don't care what hoops I have to jump through. The very first comprehensive diving course that I took was Tech 40 at 150 dives. Maybe that's why dive ops don't recognize me as good diver...my certs are from the cert mill (you know, like a puppy mill).

Dive Bermuda wouldn't let me and a former girlfriend, who was a PDIC instructor and PADI DM, rent single tanks to jump in the water that was literally covering the steps of the dive shop at high tide. We explained we only had been wearing doubles for years. We didn't know if we gained weight and would need more lead than we thought in a single in the ocean. We just wanted to do a dive in 10 feet of water so that we'd be ready for a morning dive the next day without having any problems and slowing things down for the guides and others. I produced instructor, instructor trainer, instructor trainer evaluator C-cards from 3 agencies at sport to cave levels. No go. They said we needed a guide. We were willing to pay $100 because my girlfriend was producing the Quincy Jones concert over the next week and she'd only be able to dive one day prior and one day after the show. They said no guide would be willing to dive in front of the shop. Not even for $100. I called BS on that because I was a dive guide in the islands. $100 cash to jump in the water for a weight check? Take their money!!! I'll be right there!!!

 

[scubadada]

I can wear a clown suit for an extra $5 a day. I also ensure a 'safe space' is always available for my students if they need it.

There was no need for this condescending post, it did not contribute to the discussion.

 

[markmud]

I cannot agree with you more. I have no doubt Andy’s students will be taught well by a very qualified instructor, but an instructor who has no respect for potential students at the outset loses respect in my books, no matter how good he is at his job.

Hi Dogbowl,

Sometimes an instructor who is brutally honest is what we need. Snowflakes, buttercups, and participation trophy seekers don't belong in a deep and dark cave.

I think your perspective is the problem. We are not being mean people. We are trying to be honest.

Thanks,
markm

 

[Dogbowl]

Hi Dogbowl,

I don't necessarily notice some of the negativity, disillusionment, and slotting of divers into categories. Nor do I read an "us" verses "them" mentality.

I am seeing reality written on these pages. Some have differing opinions as to the health level of diving. Some have differing opinions as to root causes and solutions to either perceived problems or real issues.

As a trained project manager, we always perform a post mortem on projects, and sometimes on different aspects of the same project. After every political presentation (to Boards of Supervisors and City Councils), we performed a post mortem on the event. We got SME opinions and citizen feed back. It was healthy, and sometimes it hurt. Sometimes it hurt personally. Our projects became better projects because of the negative feedback (some call it constructive criticism).

I believe you are witnessing such a post mortem right now.

I am a Hobbyist diver who is sick and tired of a system that gave me cert cards that mean nothing. Everywhere I dive I have some interaction with a so-called pro who wants to evaluate my diving skills infinitely, or criticize my kit. Until the last day when they tell me I am a good diver and that I should come back so we can dive advanced dive sites.

Why the hell did I fly half way around the globe--to dive the swimming pool? And trust me, I have had written agreements with dive-ops to go to specified advanced sites. Before I left my home. Moorea, Monterey, St. Croix, Costa Rica, et allia. There is always a reason why we should dive the shallow beat-up reef...always a reason.

So, some of us want the diving community to change for the better. Constructive criticism is the starting point.

I want my certifications to mean something. I don't care what hoops I have to jump through. The very first comprehensive diving course that I took was Tech 40 at 160 dives. Maybe that's why dive ops don't recognize me as good diver...my certs are from the cert mill (you know, like a puppy mill).

thanks,
markm
PS: I hope was not too negative, critical, or stereotypical for you!

I don’t see it the way you see it. I read Andy’s articles and the other posts on this thread, all of them actually. I also read between the lines. Sure, much of what was presented was based on reality. But there is still a lot of negativity, disillusionment and slotting divers into categories. I don’t understand why you don’t see it, but we’re all different.

Heck, I don’t even know why I’m posting in this thread. I’m just an inexperienced “vacation diver” coming to SB for tips and pointers from those who are willing to help. Who am I to judge what goes on in this industry???

 

[markmud]

I don’t see it the way you see it. I read Andy’s articles and the other posts on this thread, all of them actually. I also read between the lines. Sure, much of what was presented was based on reality. But there is still a lot of negativity, disillusionment and slotting divers into categories. I don’t understand why you don’t see it, but we’re all different.

Heck, I don’t even know why I’m posting in this thread. I’m just an inexperienced “vacation diver” coming to SB for tips and pointers from those who are willing to help. Who am I to judge what goes on in this industry???

Hi Dogbowl,

I think I know what our problem is. I don't read between the lines. I take people at face value and assume that a typo or poorly nuanced phrase is the reason that something reads a little negative or hurtful.

thanks,
markm

 

[Dogbowl]

Hi Dogbowl,

Sometimes an instructor who is brutally honest is what we need. Snowflakes, buttercups, and participation trophy seekers don't belong in a deep and dark cave.

I think your perspective is the problem. We are not being mean people. We are trying to be honest.

Thanks,
markm

Or perhaps the problem is your perspective? Again, just playing devil’s advocate. No offence intended nor answer required.

I don’t think anyone is mean intentionally, but some tech instructors are condescending and have no respect for other divers who are not like them or who do not have the same views on diving.