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Big Bay Point Dive Flags

Discussion in 'Ontario' started by divereh, Aug 22, 2007.

  1. aquaoren

    aquaoren Loggerhead Turtle

    # of Dives:
    Location: Guelph, Ontario, Canada
    1,764
    0
    0
    Please do not distort any statements that I've made. :no
    I never said that divers should stay out of the water in that site. This is a conclusion you have made.
    What I've said was that maybe this site isn't suitable to run basic scuba courses (OW and maybe even AOW) due to the the inexperience of the students and additional risks of the boat traffic.
     
  2. ScubaBob1

    ScubaBob1 Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Small town north of Toronto
    15
    0
    0
    Ahh..so that site is only appropriate for....you or those like you? That's certainly the only conclusion anyone can take from your arguments to date and you seem to totally disregard the boat factor in this which I find odd to the extreme unless you happen to be one of those boaters. I don't have to even try to distort what you've posted, you've made it pretty clear whose side you are representing.
    Stay in Guelph, no one needs anymore headlines here. Besides, you won't need the flag. Not said in malice, just fact. Dive up here a few more times at BBP and I might find your arguments a little more credible. As it stands, they mean as much as mine might regarding Innerkip.
    Ahh, as an aside, I guess while you and your "team member" were finning in just above the mud, totally absorbed in your buoyancy control while that boat went overhead, you also remembered EXACTLY how high the wave heights were. Yeah...2 feet makes or breaks your back and seeing as that IS the area where anything weather wise from Orillia comes through with a passion.....hey...happy diving.
    What do I know about BBP and Simcoe? I grew up around it and have boated and dived it for ohh..20 years. Innerkip...nothing other than a few dives. See above.
     
  3. aquaoren

    aquaoren Loggerhead Turtle

    # of Dives:
    Location: Guelph, Ontario, Canada
    1,764
    0
    0
    No, the site is appropriate for everyone who understands the risks and is able to dive the site but not for basic scuba courses to be conducted as most students will not even know what risk they are subjecting themselves to...
    By all means: continue supporting and condoning students being hurt/killed in an inappropriate location for basic courses.

    It's not for me to tell anyone where to go diving just as it's not for you to tell me where to go or to stay (idiot :mooner:)

    For the rest, it's not even worth a response.
    As I said before, with people like you, there is no value to any discussion. Just a waste of time.
     
  4. ScubaBob1

    ScubaBob1 Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Small town north of Toronto
    15
    0
    0
    Very adult.
    "For the rest, it's not even worth a response.
    As I said before, with people like you, there is no value to any discussion. Just a waste of time."
    You didn't offer discussion.
     
  5. Ritchard

    Ritchard Angel Fish

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Toronto, CANADA
    37
    0
    0
    Dear Oren and Bob,

    Thanks for taking the discussion to such an adult level. Care to get back on topic?

    R
     
  6. aquaoren

    aquaoren Loggerhead Turtle

    # of Dives:
    Location: Guelph, Ontario, Canada
    1,764
    0
    0
    No, not really but because you asked nicely, I'll try again to spell it slowly for the simple minded.

    I politely explained my point of view couple of times and the only thing I've got in return was: "Stay down there...blah, blah, blah...don't come up here, we don't need it....blah, blah, blah....I'm doing this since 20 years....blah, blah, blah"

    Bob doesn't know me, where I dive, what I do or my skill levels.
    He doesn't know anything about the conditions that were existent at that particular dive when the boat went above us but he's full of assumptions, baseless conclusions, accusations and mostly, of himself.
    It baffles me how someone, who is saying that a collision between a diver and a boat is only a question of time at BBP, can be supportive of conducting basic courses with inexperienced divers at a location where the students are subjected to elevated levels of risk.
    Apparently, it's always easier to demand common sense from other people...

    Let's face it as it is.
    IMO, the flag issue is only a pretext to prohibit diving altogether not because they are concerned about our safety or dive flags but because of the level of disruption of the daily lives and weekends of the local residents.
    A hint would be that the councilman that brought it up lives only 4 houses down the road.
    Heck, I wouldn't want that circus in my backyard every weekend either.

    So, maybe by not running basic courses at this location, the risk levels for the inexperienced students/divers could be reduced, the impact of the dive community on the local residents could also be reduced and an overall improvement in the relationship between the two communities (divers and local residents) could be achieved.
    Who knows, maybe the whole problem could be solved this way.
    It definitely would be worth trying in an attempt to keep this location open for the dive community because if everyone just digs in their heels and insists that the other side is wrong, I can see this location being closed altogether and the whole dive community will be the loser.
    Reality is that the boaters and the local residents aren't going to go away and their lobby is much stronger so we better come up with some compromise.

    I hope, I was able to express myself clearly and with this, I'll conclude my participation in this thread.
     
  7. Norberto

    Norberto Dive Shop

    # of Dives:
    Location: Toronto
    107
    7
    0
    This thread was started by concerned dive shop owner who suggested using dive flags to improve divers safety and public relations . I agree with Aquaoren that this dive flag nonsence is only excuse to ban divers from diving in BBP so the owners of the nearby properties can have the site all to themselves. We stopped doing Open Water check outs in BBP two years ago but I still use this site for other courses. I see a lot of divers diving there outside training so suggesting other shops to stop running basic courses is not going to change enything. There will always be a lot of divers in BBP, some of them will be noisy, many of them will leave garbage behind. Some of them will also be rude to other users. Some of them will be students and others just divers who came for a splash.There will be also many divers who will clean up mess after other users of this site but unfortunately only negative is always noticed. These are the facts and it's hard to change it. It would be be hard to find fast fix for this situation but if we could set up permanent dive markers along the line to the deep end it could keep boaters in line,increasing divers safety and give council one less reason to pick on us. The only question is are we allowed to do it?
     
  8. crispos

    crispos Instructor, Scuba

    547
    0
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    That's a good idea, Norberto. But....they cannot be permanent as they would be Navigational Aids requiring the OK of the Coast Guard.

    The CCG would have to be convinced they would not be impeding boat traffic. I believe the line goes out maybe 50-60 yards before it goes deep? So it kind of sticks out.

    There is a chance people would steal anything not really anchored to the bottom with concrete. The other question is, putting them in Spring time and taking them out Fall Time.

    So then you get into the cost of approvable buoys i.e. what SOS has to deal with. We could do some fund raising of course (from the most frequent users?).

    As to putting them in and taking them out, I for one would be pleased to do this service as I live 10 minutes away.

    By the way, whatever happenend to the big Yellow buoy on top of the Morrison?

    I can ask my Transport Canada contact for more details about what they would approve.

    By the way Aquaoren, here is what my TC contact had to say about the idea to require boaters to steer clear of the red and white flag by law....

    "In my opinion, your peers are probably correct. If navigability of any waterway were to be inhibited by the dive flag/ marker buoy then you would probably see restrictions to or regulation of the recreational dive industry. In any event, yes it is too late to get something new into regulation."

    Guess that is a No Go.
     
  9. sbrooks

    sbrooks Nassau Grouper

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Oakville, Ontario, Canada
    166
    0
    0
    Excuse my late entrance to this thread, but the above is similar to wearing a bullet-proof vest. Sure, it provides protection... Just don't get shot in the head.
     
  10. The Horn

    The Horn Barracuda

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Ontario, Canada
    437
    0
    0
    New mooring and SOS buoy going in very soon.

    Marker is approved and coing in from Ottawa and I have anchor blocks, chain and shackles all set to go.

    Diving at a boat launch or public dock is asking for problems. Sort of like trying to ride your bicycle on the 401. Boaters need to steer clear of the flags but ya can't expect them wait about while you swim in. Flag or no flag you are at risk. hopefully the flag will minimize this. I am hoping that the SOS heritage dive site marker will help to educate fisherman and boaters in the area of the Morrison and they will steer clear when people are diveing out there....may be not.

    Even with the CSA changes and making the dive flag more noticable there will be very little improvment in boater education. Ship Safety is slowly pulling out of enforcment for larger commercial vessels due to liability issues. There are far to many boaters to "patrol" properly and way too many agencies fighting to the right to enforce.

    Dive BBP or any where there is heavy boating traffic is taking your chances, flag or no flag.

    brent
     

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