Best Jacket Style BC with Tech Options

[danvolker]

Unfortunately, that's an anecdotal claim, which doesn't address any of the very long history of (often heated) dialog on the question of which BC style offers better streamlining. There was a chance awhile back in 2001 to get real data, but the protagonist bailed from getting dragged behind Lee Bell's boat (out of Boyton), so there's no hard test data to put this debate finally to bed. I believe that your claim for bailing at the time was that you were afraid of "Regulator Mouthpiece Cooties" from Mike Grey in the 'swap gear' phase.

In any case, the OP is clearly experienced and has specifically stated that they just don't want another Wing, so all Wing advocacy discussions are irrelevant.




IMO, this is real crux of the matter: those various "extras" probably contribute far more to drag than where the BC's bladder merely happens to be located.

Of course, since there's also an UW camera system, its addition to the diver's total drag probably relegates all of these "BC Differences" discussions to be a second order variable that gets lost in the noise.






Most of them were. Hopefully, these current trends/gimmicks in the marketing of Rec dive gear will hopefully have the pendulum swing back towards greater common sense and away from the macho "Tek Wannabee" schtick. I'm not optimistic, though.

In any case, I do need to run down to my LDS (to check up on some modernization work on my DA Aquamaster regulator); while I'm there, I'll check to see if they have the SP Sport in stock that Splitlip mentioned and if it is old school simple and amenable for camera applications, which may be of help to the OP.

Maybe I'll even get one for myself and finally ditch my UW camera-unfriendly wing setup too.


-hh

While I don't care to re-engage another , "my dog is bigger" type internet debate , any of you guys are welcome to dive with me and try extra bp/wings we have....
As to the issue of cameras and all the drag they represent, I think it is cumulative, and that the bc is not really a secondary form of drag....I use a canon 5 d mark II in Aquatica housing with to video light arms/heads....If I want to move to get someplace fast--point a to point b, I hold the aquatica and arms sideways and tuck up like it was a stage bottle clipped on left side...as such, it barely slows me at all....
If I swim with it directly in front of me, it does contribute plenty of drag, but I felt far more drag from the big floppy bc in the Rescue class.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

.... I felt far more drag from the big floppy bc in the Rescue class.

Could you tell us which BC you used for that Rescue class, and also the process by which you chose that BC for that class?

 

[danvolker]

Could you tell us which BC you used for that Rescue class, and also the process by which you chose that BC for that class?

I'd have to ask the instructor which brand...it was about as unimportant to me as things get
The process was, we had to take turns being rescued, and the other's in the class could not eaily get me out of the halcyon harness when I was "playing dead"....so I was handed the jacket bc ....
Bottom line, if you are planning to die, or be unconsious and not breathing at the surface, the Jacket BC's are better for this

 

[-hh]

While I don't care to re-engage another , "my dog is bigger" type internet debate , ....

The topic is unresolvable because there's no objective test data.

As to the issue of cameras and all the drag they represent, I think it is cumulative, and that the bc is not really a secondary form of drag...

Sure, a pragmatic approach would be to test discrete configurations to look at incremental differences.

However, drag force for a given medium & velocity boils down to merely what the cross-sectional area (A) and Drag Coefficient (CD) values are. That's why holding your camera out at different orientations makes for such large differences .. and because it is so easy to make such a big difference is the reason why I've characterized BC differences as a second order variable. Looking at A & CD, an UW camera is generally able to affect both of these variables, whereas relocating a BC bladder is generally more likely to affect CD than for it to affect A. FYI, a noteworthy exception to this generalization would be the "Bondage Wing" design.


Back to the OP,

Unfortunately, my local downtown is still disrupted from Hurricane Irene flooding, so I wasn't able to get over to my local dive shop today to look at potential Jacket BC candidates for the OP's application.

I'll try again over the next few days, but rains from TS Lee are now starting to fall in the Northeast, which doesn't improve prospects, since we're still at flood stage before these new rains even started.


-hh

 

[LouieLouie]

You must have one very bulky BP/W.
With the protruding sides and integrated weight pockets of the Jacket plus the oversized air cells they include how is that more streamlined than a simple plate with Hog straps and a skinny wing like a 30# Mach V?

Volume and even frontal area hardly matters when it comes to streamlining. It's a matter of making the water flow as efficiently as possible,which is primarily done by optimizing shape. A well-fitting jacket without useless extras will make you a bit thicker around the torso, but you'll still have a nice tuna-like shape. A wing on your backside, on the other hand, breaks the streamlined shape by making you look like a mackarel with a donut on top. Moreover, the inefficient shape of the wing itself creates more turbulence and will give you a larger wet surface. All factors which will significantly increase drag.

Most of the jacket-style BCD critizism seems to come from people who obviously only have tried really crappy gear. BTW - most of my dives are with BP/W - hog style. It has it's strenghts, definitely, but - despite what certain ridiculous agencies claim - also some weaknesses.

 

[danvolker]

Volume and even frontal area hardly matters when it comes to streamlining. It's a matter of making the water flow as efficiently as possible,which is primarily done by optimizing shape. A well-fitting jacket without useless extras will make you a bit thicker around the torso, but you'll still have a nice tuna-like shape. A wing on your backside, on the other hand, breaks the streamlined shape by making you look like a mackarel with a donut on top. Moreover, the inefficient shape of the wing itself creates more turbulence and will give you a larger wet surface. All factors which will significantly increase drag.

Most of the jacket-style BCD critizism seems to come from people who obviously only have tried really crappy gear. BTW - most of my dives are with BP/W - hog style. It has it's strenghts, definitely, but - despite what certain ridiculous agencies claim - also some weaknesses.

Just plain wrong..really wrong
If you ever get to Palm beach, florida, I'd be happy to show you why, and let you try the correct gear and see the differences for yourself....
I have used many major brands of Jackets, and back in 80's I was mostly using the scubapro stab jackets, until I tried an AtPac and like it better. Since 97, I have been using Halcyon--there is nothing slicker...

With big DiverR freedive blades, your speed potential is at least twice what you would have with Jetfins, at the same exertion.....the drag difference at higher speeds becomes much more apparent.
With my Gavin scooter AND stiffest model DiveR fins kicking at my 100% sustained speed pace, I can reach the speed of a pod of bottlenose dolphin, and stay with them litterally as long as I want to [ Dolphins on Pauls Reef WMV 7 Mbps 1080p - YouTube ] ..speed around 5mph....could not be done with a Jacket BC.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

With my Gavin scooter AND stiffest model DiveR fins kicking at my 100% sustained speed pace, I can reach the speed of a pod of bottlenose dolphin, and stay with them litterally as long as I want to [ Dolphins on Pauls Reef WMV 7 Mbps 1080p - YouTube ] ..speed around 5mph....could not be done with a Jacket BC.

This is the kind of typing that nearly always starts the ....

"my dog is bigger" type internet debate

If you were to have a Tahoe Benchmark Test verified, 30 foot deep, 5 mile long, finning/scooter dive in ~ an hour, I'd be willing to believe the next to last part, and I am sure you would not try as hard in a Jacket re-test, so I do believe the last part, for you, but just because you imagine something does not mean it even closely resembles the truth or is anything more than uneducated, ignorant, anecdotal opinion.

Just plain wrong..really wrong

 

[Shftrdog]

Check out Hollis Gear they make a great product

 

[danvolker]

This is the kind of typing that nearly always starts the ....



If you were to have a Tahoe Benchmark Test verified, 30 foot deep, 5 mile long, finning/scooter dive in ~ an hour, I'd be willing to believe the next to last part, and I am sure you would not try as hard in a Jacket re-test, so I do believe the last part, for you, but just because you imagine something does not mean it even closely resembles the truth or is anything more than uneducated, ignorant, anecdotal opinion.

So you are saying that mine is an "uneducated, ignorant, anecdotal opinion"...??? Kind of comment people don't make in real life, in person, unless they are the type missing many teeth, and smelling like Beer most of the time....Very brave from behind a keyboard though

Not too surprisingly, I disagree with your opinion here... While it is too ambitious to expect you to travel to S florida, or me to travel to Hawaii for speed and drag concept to be validated, there is an enormous volume of Jacket wearing divers in South Florida, that could take up this gauntlet you just tossed out, and dive with me, looking for inconsistancies between my "facts" and the observations they make.

So far, there is no one to support your uneducated, ignorant opinion on my findings

 

[dumpsterDiver]

This is the kind of typing that nearly always starts the ....



If you were to have a Tahoe Benchmark Test verified, 30 foot deep, 5 mile long, finning/scooter dive in ~ an hour, I'd be willing to believe the next to last part, and I am sure you would not try as hard in a Jacket re-test, so I do believe the last part, for you, but just because you imagine something does not mean it even closely resembles the truth or is anything more than uneducated, ignorant, anecdotal opinion.

Come on, the guy claims to be able to keep up with dolphins for "as long as he wishes", while riding a scooter and kicking big fins.

These are the kinds of "Volkerisms" that are just too good to let slide.

I too, can keep up with a swimming pod of dolphins for as long as (they want)!