Best agency for learning Tech diving - criteria given - honest :)

[ScubaInChicago]

I think you need to go back and read Caverns Measureless to Man. Exley wrote a lot about acclimating to END's in the 200-300' range, even to the point of using argon mixtures to simulate 300' on air.

Yes, and Sheck Exley died on a helium mix with an END of 330'! I didn't say he advocated a 100' END. In hindsight, I bet he might.

 

[Diver0001]

Hello - I am going to Thailand in a few days and can't seem to get anywhere by reading the various agency websites. I dont know enough to know what to look.

I want to learn Tec diving and can't wait to get stuck in to the theory as much as get wet. With the caveat firmly in place, that I realise all agencies/systems will have their merits, and critically, of course its the instructor not the agency alphabet that matters. Could you guys please help me decide (or put me in the right direction) on which course to take based on these three criteria:

1) I am most interested in a) diving deep just for the thrill/adventure/self-discovery/video with lights and learning about mixed gases; b) cave diving as a future direction

2) Where the qualification is most recognised worldwide (my thinking is: one might argue CMAS is a superior system for OW than PADI but nothing beats PADI to just rock up with your card and do a fun dive anywhere in the world). With technical diving being much more specialist, I would like to certify with an agency which is widely recognised wherever I go to dive.

3) My diving is mainly SE Asia and Red Sea - with one-off trips all over.

Thanks in advance for any tips

ps. I have searched the forum and cannot find a thread - sorry if I missed this - kindly post a link and I will read

I honestly haven't read the thread yet so forgive me if I'm repeating.

In technical training the agency counts for 3% and your instructor counts for 97%.

My technical training is from IANTD and TDI because the instructors I wanted to work with were writing these cards. At this level it's about the skills you have. Access to dive sites is about the skills you have. Your status in the local community is about the skills you have, your ability to find buddies is about the skills you have, your reputation is about the skills you have, the quality of your personal network is about the skills you have....and about who your instructor was

Nobody has EVER asked me what card I have.

R..

 

[KenGordon]

Deep air is not needed, you don't have to go with GUE to avoid it. TDI helitrox, IANTD rec trimix...



Other agencies may not specifically require it in their standards, but it's very common that instructors in N. America and Europe require it. Besides, even in agencies that do not require it, but take on an approach of discussing possibilities and letting a diver choose, the advantages of hog loop should be obvious. BSAC, on the other hand, not only does not require it, but contrary to any other agency, forbids it! That's just wrong. And furthermore, they came out with a "study" once to try and show how dangerous hog loop was, for which they were immensely criticized.

Another risk with BSAC is getting some old timers who have never evolved in diving, and I've seen plenty of that. And their instructor training is not that demanding.

This is not true. BSAC does not forbid hog looping. It does not teach it, which is quite different. I dive hog looped in a BSAC club. I can even dive hog looped while teaching on some parts of some BSAC courses, the same as I could on CCR. Obviously only lessons not involving air sharing.

BSAC wants people diving hog looped to have been properly trained, so DIY learning off the net is frowned upon. It actually comes down to the views of whoever is running the diving on the day. Unless you are actually taking a course nobody is going to say no.

It is true that the current position is poor and some efforts have been made to fix it. Part of the problem is a typical misplaced priority for 'consistency'.

 

[Seya]

Most people agree that an END of 100' is the maximum that one should allow in technical training going back as far as Sheck Exley.

PADI Tec 50 = 50M/165 feet, END of 165'
TDI Deco Procedures = 45M/150, END of 150'
IANTD Advanced EANx Diver = 42M/140', END of 140'
NAUI Deep Diver = 40M/130', END of 130'
NAUI Helitrox =16M/150, END of 125'
TDI Helitrox = 45M/150', END of 120'

GUE Tech 1 = 51M/170' = END of 93.5'

From your list that shows most people agree that your wrong

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

 

[Redshift]

Unless you are actually taking a course nobody is going to say no.

Since the OP is considering an agency for a course, then what I said applies.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Bob, the only one that has "attacked" an agency or what it may or may not entail is you, and you've done it not only in this thread, but in many other threads. I would be interested to know what percentage of your posts involve negative perceptions of GUE, because it seems like it might be a statistically significant number.

I don't see that I've "attacked" GUE at all ... nor do I have any negative perceptions about them. I simply don't see them as "the best" as universally as some others do. That's a very relative term, and what I believe is that all choices come with both upsides and downsides ... and what may be "the best" choice for you won't be for some other people. All I've been trying to do is provide some balance by pointing out some of the potential downsides, as I see them. Seems to me that a lot of folks who choose that route are very good at criticizing the shortcomings of other agencies ... but can't handle much at all when someone attempts to point out the possible downsides of the choices they made.

Every coin has two sides ... before making a purchase, it pays to look at both of them ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

---------- Post added April 3rd, 2015 at 05:30 AM ----------

I dive with people trained by a whole host of agencies, many classed as technical. Interestingly very few use the Hog configeration. To my knowledge there is only one agency that insists on it, with the rest it's the instructor's call. Cave diving is where the procedure came from and it's the appropriate setup for that environment,

When I learned to dive twinsets we're going OUT of fashion.

... perhaps it's a European thing, because all of the tech agencies I've trained with ... NAUI, TDI, IANTD, and NSS-CDS ... promoted pretty much the same rig. Even my sidemount class (IANTD) wanted me in a configuration that provided a long hose on one cylinder.

I'd think that any dive that has a potential for a restriction should mandate the long hose ... unless you've got a redundant air source that's separable from the diver that can be safely handed off in an OOA situation.

Curious ... if twinsets are going OUT of fashion, how do you guys provide redundancy?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[tomfcrist]

Most people agree that an END of 100' is the maximum that one should allow in technical training going back as far as Sheck Exley.

That's a pretty far stretch....Judging by the rest of your post I would guess that nobody agrees on any of that.

Significant narcosis is undesirable, especially in caves/wrecks....That being said I would venture to say that the vast majority of divers with any experience between 100-130' on air or nitrox would disagree that there is significant narcosis at those depths. This is especially true for anyone whom has actually experienced significant narcosis via diving "deep air" (which is not a 130' air dive by the way).

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Most people agree that an END of 100' is the maximum that one should allow in technical training going back as far as Sheck Exley.

PADI Tec 50 = 50M/165 feet, END of 165'
TDI Deco Procedures = 45M/150, END of 150'
IANTD Advanced EANx Diver = 42M/140', END of 140'
NAUI Deep Diver = 40M/130', END of 130'
NAUI Helitrox =16M/150, END of 125'
TDI Helitrox = 45M/150', END of 120'

GUE Tech 1 = 51M/170' = END of 93.5'

... did you look at your list? Do you consider GUE to be "most people"? Because they're the only one on your list that mandates a max END of 100' ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[lv2dive]

Or you could just throw a dart at the GUE list of instructors and be humbled by whomever the dart lands on. You're basically guaranteed some of the best diving education money can buy.

I disagree with the overall premise of your post (no offense!) while agreeing with several points. In general I believe GUE instructors are solid and it's unlikely one would get bad a bad instructor using a dat method. However, I'd still highly recommend Ken's questions vs. accepting dart method... There is a wide variety of instructor *style* out there even between different GUE instructors and each student needs to find an instructor whose teaching style matches their learning style. Among other points is like to discuss but haven't got the time... But that is the most important!

 

[tomfcrist]

... did you look at your list? Do you consider GUE to be "most people"? Because they're the only one on your list that mandates a max END of 100' ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

even better is that he is only good at math when calculating GUE's END.....THe Naui Helitrox END is 118.89' MAX...not 125'.