Best agency for learning Tech diving - criteria given - honest :)

[PfcAJ]

I didn't say every permutation ... I said the choices I wanted to make for how I wanted to dive.

Does GUE offer a class in sidemount? They certainly didn't when I wanted to learn it.


Do they offer a class in solo diving? No ... of course not ... it goes against the very foundation of their team diving approach.

Do they offer any training at all in diving mixed teams? If so I'll bet it ain't at the Tech 1 level ... which is what the OP is asking for.

So, why take training from an agency that won't offer those things if those are the choices you want to make? Seems to me to make sense to choose someone who offers what you're looking for, rather than trying for some "we'll make it fit" approach based on a philosophy that fundamentally believes that you'll be making the wrong choices.


... but my NAUI instruction covered those things.


... and my NAUI training covered those topics as well ... in surprisingly similar fashion to your GUE training, in fact..

I never said you couldn't dive with them ... I said your training won't cover how to. That's a true statement. Yes, the base education you get from GUE is outstanding ... I've said so repeatedly. It is not, however, either the only way to get outstanding training nor is it the best approach for everyone.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

'Covered' or you guys had a little discussion? I'm SURE you know what's discussed in a GUE Tech class...

My NAUI Trimix I class covered contingency planning for diving in mixed (CC/OC) teams.

And the principles taught in a GUE class are exactly the same principles you'd apply to a mixed team situation. The entire point of the class is to make you think about what you're doing and why you're doing it.

My IANTD Sidemount class covered sidemount diving.

Well that's a relief, esp since you're not interested in seeking out the best instructors (see thread on cave diving instruction above).

 

[LiteHedded]

I didn't say every permutation ... I said the choices I wanted to make for how I wanted to dive.

Does GUE offer a class in sidemount? They certainly didn't when I wanted to learn it.

Do they offer a class in solo diving? No ... of course not ... it goes against the very foundation of their team diving approach.

Do they offer any training at all in diving mixed teams? If so I'll bet it ain't at the Tech 1 level ... which is what the OP is asking for.

So, why take training from an agency that won't offer those things if those are the choices you want to make? Seems to me to make sense to choose someone who offers what you're looking for, rather than trying for some "we'll make it fit" approach based on a philosophy that fundamentally believes that you'll be making the wrong choices.


... but my NAUI instruction covered those things.


... and my NAUI training covered those topics as well ... in surprisingly similar fashion to your GUE training, in fact..


I never said you couldn't dive with them ... I said your training won't cover how to. That's a true statement. Yes, the base education you get from GUE is outstanding ... I've said so repeatedly. It is not, however, either the only way to get outstanding training nor is it the best approach for everyone.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

---------- Post added April 2nd, 2015 at 10:53 AM ----------



My NAUI Trimix I class covered contingency planning for diving in mixed (CC/OC) teams.

My IANTD Sidemount class covered sidemount diving.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

but it didn't cover your sidemount diving? and didn't teach you to solo dive? and you still managed to take a class on these things? or to do them without the training.
ignoring the fact that the op never mentioned sidemount diving, or wanting to dive solo, i'm not sure the route you took is any different than what i'm recommending

putting aside the fact that you've taken zero (big goose egg) gue technical training and therefore have zero clue what's covered and what isn't, you're saying the same thing i am but your bias against the GUE system is showing

 

[kr2y5]

I have the impression that folks have wildly different ideas of what "the best" means. Some interpret "the best" as in, the most you can learn per dollar/hour spent that will come handy in the future (and I think nobody in the sane mind would disagree that GUE is the definite hands-down winner in that category), and some take this to mean "the most comprehensive and versatile, and the final and only system you will ever need", given the implicit assumption that one is facing the choice of a single ultimate future path that one will fully commit oneself to for many years to come, or maybe even forever. I think Bob is arguing against the latter, based on past experiences with people who think this way, and other folks are arguing that that species is pretty much extinct.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

'Covered' or you guys had a little discussion? I'm SURE you know what's discussed in a GUE Tech class...

And the principles taught in a GUE class are exactly the same principles you'd apply to a mixed team situation. The entire point of the class is to make you think about what you're doing and why you're doing it.

Well that's a relief, esp since you're not interested in seeking out the best instructors (see thread on cave diving instruction above).

Save your snark for your dive buddies ... all it does is reinforce a stereotype.

You have no idea what I'm interested in.

Once again ... as usual ... nobody can say anything other than how universally wonderful GUE is without you guys going on the attack.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

---------- Post added April 2nd, 2015 at 12:08 PM ----------

putting aside the fact that you've taken zero (big goose egg) gue technical training and therefore have zero clue what's covered and what isn't, you're saying the same thing i am but your bias against the GUE system is showing

I have no bias against the GUE system ... I simply decided it wasn't the best choice for me.

You might be surprised to learn how many people I've steered in that direction over the years because I thought it was right for them. Ask TSandM, for example, who it was who first suggested to her that it would be a good fit for what she wanted to achieve ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[LiteHedded]

Save your snark for your dive buddies ... all it does is reinforce a stereotype.

You have no idea what I'm interested in.

Once again ... as usual ... nobody can say anything other than how universally wonderful GUE is without you guys going on the attack.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

no one is attacking you dude. what i did was answer OP's question. i think GUE is the best agency for him, and i told you why. YOU have stepped in to say that it's not for you because you have (after years of experience) chosen to dive solo and sidemount.

you countered with a bunch of stuff about everyone just does practice dives, they're not inclusive of other divers, they wont teach you this or that specialty, you lose freedom to choose to dive in mixed teams etc.
your bias, which is completely unfounded and furthermore, totally offtopic and unhelpful for OP

you keep saying someone here has said it's the best for everyone and every situation, but i struggle to find where any of us said that. or that it's universally wonderful. these are things you're pulling out of your own head.

also, if AJ's reinforcing a stereotype so are you dude. you just need a pinnacle black ice drysuit to complete the picture

 

[eelnoraa]

... but my NAUI instruction covered those things.


... and my NAUI training covered those topics as well ... in surprisingly similar fashion to your GUE training, in fact..



My NAUI Trimix I class covered contingency planning for diving in mixed (CC/OC) teams.

My IANTD Sidemount class covered sidemount diving.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

This is the key here. Your class covers these. Can you say all NAUI class/instructors will go out of their way to cover this item properly? And how many of NAUI instructors are like you amount all the NAUI instructors?

The true is if I know you, or if I happen to find you, I am lucky. But more likely, chances are I will get a minimum standard NAUI instructors. To new divers, or new to tech divers, they don't know what should/need to know exactly. The main goal of tech class is to be able to go deep and execute decompression properly. Other aspect, you tent to learn after you get into tech diving.

I do agree with you that if you are intended to do side mount, solo, mixed team, then GUE is probably not for you. But if you are looking at background, throwing the dart at GUE will almost guarantee you a high quality education. Can you say the same for NAUI? I know I can't say the same about at least one other agency

 

[LiteHedded]

Save your snark for your dive buddies ... all it does is reinforce a stereotype.

You have no idea what I'm interested in.

Once again ... as usual ... nobody can say anything other than how universally wonderful GUE is without you guys going on the attack.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

---------- Post added April 2nd, 2015 at 12:08 PM ----------


I have no bias against the GUE system ... I simply decided it wasn't the best choice for me.

You might be surprised to learn how many people I've steered in that direction over the years because I thought it was right for them. Ask TSandM, for example, who it was who first suggested to her that it would be a good fit for what she wanted to achieve ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

what's the difference with this guy?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

what's the difference with this guy?

The difference is that none of us really know him, have seen him dive, or have discussed with him what his goals really are. In Lynne's case, I had done all of those things ... and as a result had a pretty good idea of what would work for her. Personality has a lot to do with it ... and in her case, the GUE approach was a good fit.

A significant number of my students ended up taking GUE training ... some going well into the Tech and Cave classes. I've been told by multiple GUE instructors that they come to the program pretty well-prepared. They should be ... most of it's just fundamental common sense safe diving practices.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

---------- Post added April 2nd, 2015 at 12:28 PM ----------

also, if AJ's reinforcing a stereotype so are you dude. you just need a pinnacle black ice drysuit to complete the picture

... I don't have a clue what that's supposed to mean ... must be some inside joke among cavers or something ... at any rate, I think by now the OP has read enough to draw his own conclusions ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Edward3c]

I would stay away from BSAC, simply because they adhere to some practices which are pretty much out of step with the rest of the technical diving world. If you can't evaluate individual instructors, GUE is probably the most consistent. OTOH, I have certs from IANTD for cave, rebreather, and trimix and have had no complaints with them.

What practises does BSAC adhere to that you don't agree with? The only configuration we do NOT use during training is what people call the Hog-loop. Our twin-set course covers indipendents, manifold or sidemount as they're just variations on a theme and not worthy of a course each.

Entry level is Sports Diver:
Mixed gas open circuit courses:
* Sport Mixed Gas Diver (Gas Mix: 20/30, up to 50m)
* Explorer Mixed Gas Diver (Gas Mix: ≥18/≤35, up to 60m)
* Advanced Mixed Gas Diver (Gas Mix: mix+O2 up to 80m)

Rebreather and mixed gas rebreather courses:
* CCR Inspiration Evolution/Vision Diver
* Sport Mixed Gas CCR Diver (Gas Mix: 20/30, up to 50m)
* Explorer Mixed Gas CCR Diver (Gas Mix: ≥18/≤35, up to 60m)
* Advanced Mixed Gas CCR Diver (Gas Mix: mix+O2 up to 80m)

See here for more details.

Kind regards

 

[kr2y5]

So, what does "the best" mean? Surely, it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to have a fistfight about who's the best, when there is no agreement on what that sequence of 8 characters actually represents...