Before you take your open water course

[Slonda828]

Overall I thought it was pretty good. One thing I might like to see is other options for getting into better shape other than water activities. Simple jogging or biking would do many hopeful-divers well...

Though I do think if someone could perform the physical tasks you outline they would be more than prepared for an open water course.

This is one of the few useful posts on this thread, thanks for offering something that was actually constructive. I may do just what you mentioned.

 

[Slonda828]

In your opinion, perhaps that is the way it should be, but that is your opinon and not the general opinion of the dive community.
.

This is funny, my opinions on my web page. I didn't know I had to consult the diving community at large to design my own web page. Maybe next time you write a blog you should call my cell phone and make sure you put my opinions in your blog too. How about providing USEFUL feedback.

This is an example of useful feedback:

"You mentioned split fins, but didn't mention paddle fins."

This is filled with what we call valid and useful information.

 

[Slonda828]

Interesting. Didn't know I was supposed to be good at the breastsroke though ?

I didn't say that you had to either, remember it is just a page I created based upon my experiences. When I used to take swim tests, you could only swim breast or side stroke, so based upon my experience that is what I used. Breast and side strokes are also more useful in survival and rescue situations than crawl.

 

[Slonda828]

I have to agree with Boulderjohn on his thoughts about the physical preparations being a bit much. This is recreational scuba, not the military, commercial or technical diving, where expending large amounts of energy could be a "must". If a new diver can do these exercises, that's great, but a bit of overkill for the casual recreational diver....

If you actually read all of my page, it says (I feel like I've said this a lot) that the course is designed to purposely be more difficult than ANY recreational SCUBA course. Remember, I'm not selling this, I made it for free so people who WANTED to look at this kind of information could. It is supposed to make it easy for you to pass a recreational SCUBA course. You are an instructor, I'm only a divemaster in training. I KNOW you have seen people quit during the confined water sessions. I've seen at least 4 or 5 people just quit, and get out of the pool and never come back. That's all this is trying to prevent.

I have to just go ahead and ask, if you thought you could remotely perform half of these activities, would you be against them? Ask yourself that honestly.

 

[Slonda828]

I really take offense on a statement made about training organizations. Very unprofessional on your part and can be considered libel.
You made negative statements about PADI and marketing.The same thing can be said for ANY other agency,which you did not attempt to show.
So what if they market themselves,so does any successful business.I can show you where SSI,NAUI,ANDI etc all market themslves to get a niche in their markets.
What about an agency that does not allow independent instr's...The belief there is that it can eliminate competition in a local area if the area has only 1 dive shop.Former instructors for that store would have no where else to go,no competitive pay.. Its "work for me and my store or stay at home".Works great for the store,lousy deal for the instructors.
What about an agency that you pay a CD or IT whatever they call themselves an amount of money and "poof "you are now an instructor for them(I have personal knowledge of this happening for a local instr here in NY-he did it on an island in the Carib).
NO person or agency is perfect but to point fingers at one without listing faults in others is wrong.

I'm not exactly sure where you think I am speaking poorly of PADI. I actually just looked at the ENTIRE page, and I don't mention any agency by name. I work at a PADI shop, my MSDT is PADI, the shop owner is PADI and NAUI, and all my certs are PADI and NAUI. I have to question your motives and your intellect by thinking that I am bashing the agencies. Oh yeah, and on my APA documented sources I reference PADI publications as a source for my research. Where are you getting this from?

 

[boulderjohn]

Remember a few things here. I didn't say anywhere on that page that you HAD to do any of this. Since it is MY page, it has MY opinions on it (I know that's crazy, stay with me though). It says right on the page that this is harder than a regular SCUBA class. You can disagree all you want, but I'm not forcing anyone to look at it, follow it, or adhere to it. I'm simply passing on my observations from my experience diving, my experience working with new students, and my experience in the military. I didn't say anyone had to use it, did I?

But you do not say or imply this at all clearly. You say this as a class that will prepare people for what will happen in their introductory scuba class. You say that taking this class will save them from having to pay for a course if they can't do the skills in your class. That more than implies that students need to be able to do this for any course they take. If you intent is to prepare students more thoroughly than they need to be for their OW class, and if you beleive that this is valuable, then you need to say that clearly up front.

No offense, but if you can't swim 25 meters underwater easily, in my opinion you shouldn't be an instructor. Come to think of it, all the recreational agencies agree with me on that.

They do? What indication do you have of that?

Maybe being physically fit does do something for your diving, I followed this program when I created it in grad school and I can swim 50 meters underwater on a single breath. Don't believe me? The YMCA pool is two blocks away, meet me there when I'm not in class and I'll show you how to do it.

How wonderful for you! I can do all sorts of scuba-related stuff that is not necessary for starting an OW class myself.

I know we all have our different opinions, and these are mine. If you are in physically poor condition, re-evaluate yourself, but don't tell me that my program is flawed, it's hard on purpose. It is not meant for the moderately overweight vacation diver, it is meant for someone who wants to do this seriously, and as a form of physical fitness.

Is that how you introduced the class? It seems to me that your first post said something different.

I thought I would post this as a free way to prepare yourself for the open water diver course if you are thinking about it, or if you are a new diver. I addressed what I felt were common areas of concern based upon what I have seen at the shop.

 

[Slonda828]

But you do not say or imply this at all clearly. You say this as a class that will prepare people for what will happen in their introductory scuba class. You say that taking this class will save them from having to pay for a course if they can't do the skills in your class. That more than implies that students need to be able to do this for any course they take. If you intent is to prepare students more thoroughly than they need to be for their OW class, and if you beleive that this is valuable, then you need to say that clearly up front.

You are absolutely correct on this, I should put a disclaimer smack dab on the middle of the front page. I didn't do one for the college project, but you are right, if I am allowing anyone to view this, then I need to mention that this is optional. This is a valuable idea, thanks for that.

They do? What indication do you have of that?

The divemaster program for both PADI and NAUI require a 25 meter underwater swim. I had to do one, and while I am not a representative of either PADI or NAUI, I believe that it is standard for their courses. Instructor ratings require the same swim skills, do they not?

 

[boulderjohn]

This is funny, my opinions on my web page. I didn't know I had to consult the diving community at large to design my own web page. Maybe next time you write a blog you should call my cell phone and make sure you put my opinions in your blog too. How about providing USEFUL feedback.

Let's go back to what you said was the purpose of the class in the opening post, that this was to prepare students for what they would encounter in their OW class. I said that what you said they should be doing is not what the dive community as a whole has accepted. You can tell that by looking at the OW standards for the various agencies.

Now, in your responses here you are saying something very different about the purpose of the course. You need to make it very clear that what you are saying is very different from what the actually experience when they take the class itself, and that it reflects your idea only.

This is an example of useful feedback:

"You mentioned split fins, but didn't mention paddle fins."

This is filled with what we call valid and useful information.

Ah, I see we are operating on different definitions of constructive criticism. I suggest you clarify this by giving potential critics a form to use when providing criticism of the kind you prefer.

Here is one you can use if you like:

"I found everything you have done here to be simply wonderful. The only change I would suggest is to add the following:________________"

 

[boulderjohn]

The divemaster program for both PADI and NAUI require a 25 meter underwater swim. I had to do one, and while I am not a representative of either PADI or NAUI, I believe that it is standard for their courses. Instructor ratings require the same swim skills, do they not?

PADI does not require this, at either the DM or instructor level.

 

[Beyond_Diving]

the one thing I would like to know is what makes you such an expert in the subject? are you an instructor?doubtful since your info says you have less than 50 dives... that also puts you out of being a divemaster, so what exactly makes you think you're qualified to be telling other people what they should or should not do when it comes to diving instruction? also where exactly does it say in the padi standards that you are required to do a 25 m underwater swim? learn the standards prior to quoting them..