BC Remove and Replace Skill

[tursiops]

It frustrates me that min gas, gas consumption isn't a mandatory part of open water.

It isn't hard subject. Let's be honest, if I can teach it, any instructor can!

Perhaps this thread now needs to be retitled, "All the things that are wrong with OW courses, except GUE."

 

[DiveProKoko]

My open water cert was with SSI but it was several years ago so I don't remember much of what was covered.

I do remember the instructor saying something about boat dives wherein one is expected to be back on the boat with 500psi. I asked the obvious question - when do I need to leave the bottom by to get back to the boat with 500psi? ....
Personally, I think talking about minimum gas (wherein there is sufficient volume for a diver to donate to another diver who is OOA, to get prepared for the ascend and then to ascend to the surface) and gas consumption at varying depths, both covered at even at a very high level, would have been a far more productive use of time than covering a skill (BC remove and replace) that is, at best, very seldom used and at worst, makes a diver's situation worse.

But that is just me.

Fair enough. But as far as things like air consumption and dive planning goes, you now know there is no good generalized answer to that question because SAC rates are so diver dependent. But, I bet he did teach you the "rule of thirds" which, at that level, should have answered your question. FWIW - BC remove and replace takes about 15 minutes over 6 pool and class sessions. The "more important" aspects of diving are done repetitively in each pool session and need to be demonstrated proficiently by the student in open water as well. Basic open water creates divers. What you do with the basic info from there is up to you.

 

[CaptainChris]

It is a performance requirement for PADI OW course as below:

PADI Confined Water Dive 5 Performance Requirements

Underwater:

1. Remove, replace, adjust and secure the scuba kit with minimal assistance in water too deep in which
to stand, without losing control of buoyancy, body position and depth.

PS: Tricky if using an integrated BCD weight system!

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Fair enough. But as far as things like air consumption and dive planning goes, you now know there is no good generalized answer to that question because SAC rates are so diver dependent. But, I bet he did teach you the "rule of thirds" which, at that level, should have answered your question. FWIW - BC remove and replace takes about 15 minutes over 6 pool and class sessions. The "more important" aspects of diving are done repetitively in each pool session and need to be demonstrated proficiently by the student in open water as well. Basic open water creates divers. What you do with the basic info from there is up to you.

Is rule of thirds realistic? Everyone tries to maximize bottom time, so that gets thrown out the window.

Is a timed swim to determine rough SAC that onerous of an activity?

 

[Adobo]

Fair enough. But as far as things like air consumption and dive planning goes, you now know there is no good generalized answer to that question because SAC rates are so diver dependent. But, I bet he did teach you the "rule of thirds" which, at that level, should have answered your question. FWIW - BC remove and replace takes about 15 minutes over 6 pool and class sessions. The "more important" aspects of diving are done repetitively in each pool session and need to be demonstrated proficiently by the student in open water as well. Basic open water creates divers. What you do with the basic info from there is up to you.

The first time I heard about rule of thirds was when I was talking with an instructor who had cave and tech training. This was well after my open water class. His point was, if I remember correctly, rule of thirds is not a conservative way to plan dives. At least not for cave dives.

Honestly, I have no recollection on how I was instructed to execute a dive during open water training. Maybe I was told to head back to the exit point when I hit 1500psi and begin my ascent to the surface at 750psi. Would seem like a reasonable way to do a beach dive assuming it is a fairly shallow dive site.

At any rate, just thinking back, maybe it takes 15 minutes to instruct how to remove and replace your BC. I imagine it takes at least an hour for all of the student divers to demonstrate the skill back to the instructor in the pool, assuming an average class size. But whatever, even if it ate up 15 minutes, I think it is 15 minutes not spent wisely. I could get behind spending that time teaching how to get out of a BC on the surface in case you are diving off a RIB though. That seems useful - even I dove off a small boat / RIB several times.

 

[boulderjohn]

At any rate, just thinking back, maybe it takes 15 minutes to instruct how to remove and replace your BC. I imagine it takes at least an hour for each diver to demonstrate the skill back to the instructor in the pool, assuming an average class size. But whatever, even if it ate up 15 minutes, I think it is 15 minutes not spent wisely. I could get behind spending that time teaching how to get out of a BC on the surface in case you are diving off a RIB though. That seems useful - even I dove off a small boat / RIB several times.

Just to repeat things said in this thread but seemingly not noticed....

Getting both in and out of the BCD on the surface is required, and is to be done both in the pool and during one of the OW dives.

The primary purpose of doing it underwater, which is only done in the pool, is to show comfort on scuba during a task loading exercise.

I have no idea what happens in a 15 minute demonstration. It only took me a minute or two. Once I had moved to neutral buoyancy instruction, I demonstrated it in mid water. I gave students the option of doing it mid water or touching the bottom (not planted, though). Almost all did it in mid water with no problems. Since brand new students can do it in mid water at the end of their pool sessions with few problems, I feel confident that the majority of instructors who have in the past only done it on their knees can do it successfully with a little practice.

 

[Adobo]

Just to repeat things said in this thread but seemingly not noticed....

Getting both in and out of the BCD on the surface is required, and is to be done both in the pool and during one of the OW dives.

The primary purpose of doing it underwater, which is only done in the pool, is to show comfort on scuba during a task loading exercise.

I have no idea what happens in a 15 minute demonstration. It only took me a minute or two. Once I had moved to neutral buoyancy instruction, I demonstrated it in mid water. I gave students the option of doing it mid water or touching the bottom (not planted, though). Almost all did it in mid water with no problems. Since brand new students can do it in mid water at the end of their pool sessions with few problems, I feel confident that the majority of instructors who have in the past only done it on their knees can do it successfully with a little practice.

Thanks for pointing that out.

I didn't miss it but I did not respond to it because personally, I don't see BC removal and replacement as a good measure of in water comfort. To me, its a lot like the buddha position. Cool, it shows you are able to achieve neutral buoyancy without any of your limbs moving. But in either the buddha position and the BC remove and replace, as it relates to actually diving, neither serve a practical purpose. And certainly neither give any indication how a diver would perform if a dive starts to go south.

I will admit though that my experience is only that of a diver. Meaning, I know what I have seen and done. And I know what my buddies do. So my knowledge and subsequently, my opinions on this topic are quite limited. I appreciate that people who teach often have a lot more data to base their opinions on.

 

[tursiops]

I have no idea what happens in a 15 minute demonstration. It only took me a minute or two.

Agreed. If an instructor candidate takes 15 mins to show the skill, they will not pass the IDC.

 

[DiveProKoko]

I have no idea what happens in a 15 minute demonstration.

15 minutes total time...... to demo it and have each student do it. We keep our classes capped at 6 divers.

 

[DiveProKoko]

Is rule of thirds realistic? Everyone tries to maximize bottom time, so that gets thrown out the window.

It's a good starting point for new divers who can then determine their own SAC rate with experience over time.