BC Remove and Replace Skill

[kaylee_ann]

I'm currently taking SDI OW classes. Had to do this last Monday, so around the third class (I think). The explanation I got was in case your gear gets tangled in something. There may have been another reason but I'm too tired to remember right now, lol.
Edit- but the task-loading part makes sense.

 

[tursiops]

WRSTC Standards:
4.8 Pool/Confined Water Scuba Skills. The following scuba skills shall each be required to be taught to students in pool/confined water prior to that skill being performed in the open water.

(16) Underwater removal and replacement of scuba system​

4.9 Open Water Scuba Skills. These open water scuba skills are to be performed while diving in the open water, wearing a minimum instructional scuba diving system.

(15) Removal and replacement of scuba system​

PADI Standards:
Confined Water Dive Performance Requirements
Dive 5 Performance Requirements
Underwater:

1. Remove, replace, adjust and secure the scuba kit with minimal assistance in water too deep in which
to stand, without losing control of buoyancy, body position and depth.​

Open Water Dive Performance Requirements
Dive Flexible Skills (can be doen during any of the four dives)
At the surface:

Remove and replace the scuba kit in water too deep in which to stand.​

SDI Standards:
7.10 Required Skill Performance and Graduation Requirements

7. Buoyancy compensator device (BCD) use:​

c. Removal and replacement at surface​

d. Removal and replacement at depth​

 

[Centrals]

Taught in PADI ow course 25yrs ago.
I suspect it is one of the skill than some instructors would omit if they have to rush through the course in 3 days or even less!!
PADI standard is 8 students per instructor(still valid or wrong?).

 

[jlcnuke]

Taught in PADI ow course 25yrs ago.
I suspect it is one of the skill than some instructors would omit if they have to rush through the course in 3 days or even less!!
PADI standard is 8 students per instructor(still valid or wrong?).

10:1 confined water
8:1 open water

So yeah, still 8 for the most limiting portion.

 

[boulderjohn]

The inspiration for me starting this thread has to do with two videos I saw recently. In this first video, I see two DM candidates working together practicing gear removal, exchanging gear and putting gear back on. All the while, buddy breathing on one regulator [side note: anyone know why 1) this is done on their knees? and 2) why they don't offer knee pads for those wearing shorty wetsuits?]


For the life of me, I couldn't work out what scenario this exercise would be useful. Maybe double entanglement and one diver OOA at the same time?

I am of the opinion that taking your gear off underwater is a pointless skill. Even in the case where one is "entangled" in fishing line (as an example), I am not convinced that taking one's gear off isn't going to make the situation worse. One could potentially make the entanglement worse where the line wraps itself in a way that ties up one of the divers limbs, pulls the diver's reg out or wraps around the divers neck. It is far more practical to have your buddy address the entanglement. In the case of gear issues such as bubbles billowing out of the first stage, I would submit that effing around underwater is not the solution. The solution is, thumb the dive, keep your buddy close and keep an eye on your SPG.

Anyways, whether you agree with me on the usefulness of this particular skill or not, it seems that DM training for this skill is quite effective. It seems some DMs are going to this go to maneuver to solve problems underwater on recreational dives. This brings us to a second video I saw recently:


Now, I will not say that I am as skilled, experienced or wise as the DM in the above video. But IMHO, removing his BC due to the issue he ran into seemed wholly unnecessary. And that ascent, wow. That took quite a bit of skill and calm under pressure. Probably would have been a whole lot easier if his gear was on his back and not in his hand.

As stated earlier, the equipment exchange shown in this video is a task loading, stress drill designed to show the diver's comfort and ability to deal with problems under water.

As it is done in the video, it is obsolete. The current standards call for the divers to be neutrally buoyant in mid water, and they are not to buddy breathe but will instead use each other's alternate air source during the exchange. This is partially in response to Covid.

 

[tursiops]

As stated earlier, the equipment exchange shown in this video is a task loading, stress drill designed to show the diver's comfort and ability to deal with problems under water.

As it is done in the video, it is obsolete. The current standards call for the divers to be neutrally buoyant in mid water, and they are not to buddy breathe but will instead use each other's alternate air source during the exchange. This is partially in response to Covid.

It is worth repeating that the equipment exchange is done only in the Divemaster class. It is not for any OW or other recreational-level classes.

 

[GameChanger]

Diving from small boats in Cozumel, and after having 2 recent shoulder reconstruction surgeries and a recent knee surgery, removing my BP/W and the tank with integrated weights in the STA is something I do routinely now because I do not want to reinjure myself climbing up a rocking ladder. Granted, it is at the surface, and sometimes in choppy seas, but it has become second nature. My 1972 NASDS OW course required underwater removal of our tank harness (before BC's) and then redonning. Not sure what purpose it served...

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

The way underwater scuba kit removal and replacement is taught in open water is pointless for cold water divers. Sure you can do it in a pool, but in the open water? You have to be in control of your kit that has most (all?) of your lead, otherwise your scuba kit is going to the bottom and you're going to the surface.

 

[d^2b]

Diving from small boats in Cozumel, and after having 2 recent shoulder reconstruction surgeries and a recent knee surgery, removing my BP/W and the tank with integrated weights in the STA is something I do routinely now because I do not want to reinjure myself climbing up a rocking ladder.

Recently diving in Belize from a smallish boat (6 divers), and we shrugged out of our gear just for convenience, and let the crew haul the rigs back into the boat rack them. It was mostly pretty calm and really not a problem, although it's a good idea to be hanging on to the boat when you pass your fins up. Or so, uh, a friend told me

 

[Adobo]

Recently diving in Belize from a smallish boat (6 divers), and we shrugged out of our gear just for convenience, and let the crew haul the rigs back into the boat rack them. It was mostly pretty calm and really not a problem, although it's a good idea to be hanging on to the boat when you pass your fins up. Or so, uh, a friend told me

Diving from small boats in Cozumel, and after having 2 recent shoulder reconstruction surgeries and a recent knee surgery, removing my BP/W and the tank with integrated weights in the STA is something I do routinely now because I do not want to reinjure myself climbing up a rocking ladder. Granted, it is at the surface, and sometimes in choppy seas, but it has become second nature. My 1972 NASDS OW course required underwater removal of our tank harness (before BC's) and then redonning. Not sure what purpose it served...

I totally understand the potential need to take your BC off at the end of the dive before getting back in the boat. Aside physical impairments that might make it more challenging to get back on the boat with the gear on, there are boats (RIBs) where there isn't even a ladder to climb. I dove off a RIB a couple of times where the only way to get back in the boat was to take your gear off and then pull yourself onto the boat using a rope.

Its the underwater stuff that has me puzzled. And they are teaching it in open water class apparently. For me, the preference is to have my buddy help me sort out the entanglement if I cannot do it myself. I know someone is going to argue that you might be separated from your buddy or the entanglement might have caused the separation. To which I would say, is this really a good idea - a diver with only open water training, taking his gear off while separated from his buddy?

The other reason given to have need to be able to take gear off underwater is to address some sort of gear failure. Example one is a hose that ruptures (or maybe a blown o-ring somewhere). My thought on this is either you can get gas from your second stage (primary or back up) or you can't. If you can breath from your own regs, the thing to do is to call the dive and head for the surface. If you cannot reliably breath from your own regs, you ask your buddy for their reg and you basically do an OOA ascent. Either way, ******* around underwater is not the right thing to do.

Example two is the diver's tank could have slipped out of the tanks strap. To me, the problem fix here is tanks falling out of the diver's BC in the first place. One feature I like about BP/W is they come with two tank straps. I have, on numerous occasions, seen people with jacket BCs that have had their tanks slip out. To me, the answer here isn't to teach divers how to take off their BCs to fix a tank that fell out. The answer is to have a BC that has two straps in the first place. In the unlikely event that the tank does slip out despite having two tank straps, you ask your buddy for help.

Anyway, anytime I hear about this skill, I have images of the diver going one direction and the BC going the other direction. And the only thing keeping the diver from drowning is their grip on the mouthpiece of the regulator.