Basic open water training fiasco

[paolov]

The Dry Suit adventure dive can be counted as one of the three electives for AOW without violating standards.

yes that is stated as such. however if you take the post in CONTEXT and not just verbatim , the context is SAFETY not certification that concerns PADI.

violation is on the issue of SAFETY not certification violation.

you may rebut on the wording and your interpretation but as most guys have stated, implied , suggested the first and foremost concern is the safety issue not certification procedures.


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[paolov]

The only thing they could mean is that they'd have to do the required pool session.

Rachel

agree, most probably so. wordings could have made the difference.


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[Trever]

No, there is actually a written rule backing up exactly what the dive shop is saying. Good on them for sticking to the rules and looking after diver safety !! The below is taken from the PADI Instructor Manual.

'When student divers will use dry
suits during Open Water Training
Dives, they must complete a confined
water dry suit orientation session prior
to any open water training.'

Sounds like a good policy to me. Maybe the LDS could give him a courtesy DS orientation. That would solve everything and they would have a happy customer.

 

[Jeff Toorish]

I agree with Pete, there is quite a bit of additional task loading with at dry suit and an apparent safety issue. Diving a dry suit is not the same as a wetsuit, just balancing the inflation between the suit and BC is enough to throw off a new diver.

Personally, I think the LDS made the right call.

Jeff

 

[superstar]

Do you suppose the very first diver to ever dive with a dry suit took the PADI dry suit specialty class first. I don't think so!

 

[Bubble Junky]

Do you suppose the very first diver to ever dive with a dry suit took the PADI dry suit specialty class first. I don't think so!

And Jaques Cousteau did his Open Water course too.........?

 

[Quero]

yes that is stated as such. however if you take the post in CONTEXT and not just verbatim , the context is SAFETY not certification that concerns PADI.

violation is on the issue of SAFETY not certification violation.

you may rebut on the wording and your interpretation but as most guys have stated, implied , suggested the first and foremost concern is the safety issue not certification procedures.


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In agreement with you, paolov, regarding the primacy of safety. BUT... there are two separate courses being discussed in this thread, which makes "context" a bit fuzzy and hard to pin down (and I can only go by what is written verbatim as I'm not given to guessing about people's implied meanings). The two questions seem to be:
1) Should an OW candidate be allowed to do open water training dives in a drysuit, and if so, under what circumstances?
and 2) can an AOW candidate do the course in a dry suit without any previous dry suit experience?

As to 1) it's clear that standards allow doing the OW checkout dive in a dry suit if an orientation session in the pool precedes it. What isn't clear is exactly what the LDS mentioned by the OP is proposing. If the OW candidate prefers a shore dive in a dry suit, then the LDS is correct in asking the student to pay for the additional training required, which, according to standards, is an orientation class. If the LDS is asking the student to buy a dry suit course (as the OP claims), then it is in violation, since that course is only open to certified divers. It is possible that the OP meant to say "class" and not "course," but unless he clarifies his posting, we can't know, and I won't guess.

As to 2) it's also clear that an AOW candidate can do the entire AOW course in a dry suit if s/he has been taught to use one. What is not clear is whether the OP received that training as an AOW student, either as an orientation class in the pool or as one of the three optional adventure dives. If the training was provided, there is no violation, either of standards or of safety concerns. But there isn't really any way to know unless the OP tells us (and again, I won't guess); only then would we be able to say whether the LDS followed or violated standards.

 

[Gil57usa]

I want to thank everyone who replied to my original post and for their input.

To clarify a couple points, The dive shop/instructor will do the open water dives from shore if my friend uses a wetsuit. The water temp. in our area of upstate NY is currently 42 degrees at the surface, even colder at depth. Water this cold is definitely a safety concern for hypothermia.

The shop owner did not give the option of a drysuit familiarization session. It was made very clear that the complete drysuit course would be required, and as mentioned in one of the replies, the drysuit course cannot be taken by a diver that is not yet OW certified. I understand that safety is paramount at all times. I just feel that the shop is not being completely reasonable.

Obviously they are willing to teach a specialty course to someone who is not yet certified, in the name of safety (and profit). A violation of PADI standards. And yet they seem to take a very laid back attitude towards cold water temps. Seems to me there is a safety issue with that as well. Double standards? Dollar standards? Hmmm.....thoughts to ponder...........

 

[paolov]

Double standards? Dollar standards? Hmmm.....thoughts to ponder...........

i think i have to go with $ standards


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[Quero]

It sounds like it's time for your friend to take his business elsewhere. Additionally, as the student concerned, he may want to communicate his concerns to PADI, triggering a Quality Assurance probe. This can be done regardless of whether he chooses to continue his training with this shop or finish up with another shop via the referral process.