DIR- GUE Balanced rig with a thick wetsuit - mathematically impossible?

[Ayisha]

Ok, so as I've stated I'm not DIR and I don't pretend to be.

For you DIR folks. Based on my SAC (pretty much right in the middle) I used double 100's prior to going closed circuit. I know other OC tech divers who use bigger tanks for the dives they do.

In my drysuit with my thickest undergarments in salt water the steel tanks with a AL 40 deco bottle has me overweighted with zero lead, what is the balanced rig answer to this?

As I stated above the DIR divers I know personally don't carry ditchable lead when they do need lead at all how does fit into the balanced rig?

You and I were posting at the same time. You might find my post above a suitable answer.

It boils down to being aware that you are diving unbalanced; figuring out any changes you might want to make to dive balanced; knowing what removeable weight you have (can light, camera, DPV, stage bottle, other weights); ensuring that you have redundant buoyancy (drysuit, DSMB, lift bag); and ensuring that you know you can swim up your rig in case of a catastrophic failure.

 

[OTF]

Lots of talk on techniques to solve worst-case loss of buoyancy when one is (perhaps foolishly) diving heavy tanks deep in a wetsuit... but very little mention of just bringing your damn DSMB as emergency redundant buoyancy. I'm not seeing a good demo video online, but the technique I was taught involves straddling the DSMB with the inflate/dump valves in the front for easy volume control. You ride it up like a pool noodle, it works remarkably well. Whatever your configuration it's wise to have some form of redundant buoyancy. A tucked away DSMB provides this if diving wet. And it has tons of additional uses.

Then again, I'm not GUE and not even a cave diver. I could see how DSMBs might be an underappreciated option in the cave community.

what is this the 70's... The DIR approved solution is a Glock 19 with Maritime spring cups

the glock is worn on the right and used as a longhose retainer

 

[Angelo Farina]

So you are saying that the concept of a "balanced rig" includes having a ditchable weight belt for example? I think a lot of people seem to think the definition precludes the use of ditchable lead.

I think the distinction, or at least agreement upon, the definition of "balanced rig" is critical.

Even if yout rig is balanced, it is always a good idea to have some ditchable weight. Apart the case in which you need to get more buoyancy for yourself, there are cases where your weights can be useful to others, or to fix equipment on the sea bed, or to append to the line of your buoy, etc.
I remember a couple of cases whete I used a lead weight as a hammer...

 

[Angelo Farina]

Lots of talk on techniques to solve worst-case loss of buoyancy when one is (perhaps foolishly) diving heavy tanks deep in a wetsuit... but very little mention of just bringing your damn DSMB as emergency redundant buoyancy. I'm not seeing a good demo video online, but the technique I was taught involves straddling the DSMB with the inflate/dump valves in the front for easy volume control. You ride it up like a pool noodle, it works remarkably well. Whatever your configuration it's wise to have some form of redundant buoyancy. A tucked away DSMB provides this if diving wet. And it has tons of additional uses.

Then again, I'm not GUE and not even a cave diver. I could see how DSMBs might be an underappreciated option in the cave community.


the glock is worn on the right and used as a longhose retainer

Alhough a DSMB us a useful piece of equipment, using my 1.5 m long tubular DSMB for buoyancy seems to be umpractical to me..
What about the shopper plastic bag introduced by Bucher in the sixties and still working perfectly?

 

[Celt]

The popularity of soft stretchy neoprene, in a wetsuit, is a problem for scuba diving. An off the peg suit designed to fit various sizes by stretching is useless as it will stretch in tight places and bag where it’s loose. The perfect wetsuit should be of hard neoprene close to the skin and feel tight when dry with very little stretch, ideally MTM. Hood attached and worn with booties and gloves to complete the seal. No zips. Anything else I wouldn’t touch going deep. As someone has mentioned a bag (shell) dry suit. Whatever chance you have of swimming up a wetsuit without a bcd you definitely won’t swim up a flooded bag suit. A flooded neoprene dry suit by ditching. Maybe.

 

[LFMarm]

Some interesting views on balanced rigs. My perspective is that for OC it boils down to use as little weight as possible (total weight, not only lead) for a given exposure protection (i.e., the weight you need to be neutral with empty tanks at 3m). I would never compromise on thermal protection to carry fewer weights. I am also lucky that I would never use any wet suit thicker than 3mm because I am just too lazy with donning and doffing (either 3mm or dry).

For CC diving it’s a bit more complex and there are different philosophies. Mine is that I need to be able to hold a 3m stop neutral with empty wing and dry suit, empty tanks and flooded rebreather (I do not account for the loop lift in order to reduce weight needed and I am willing to flood it in case I need in a bailout situation).

 

[mariosx]

That is true, DIR divers and those who aspire to be DIR divers don't solo dive.

But again, this is not the balanced rig definition we are working with here. I thought we're all on the same page about the definition, but here it is from my Doubles workbook:

It doesn't say "...allowing the diver to swim to the surface from depth (at its heaviest) with a failed wing (BC).. with the help of their teammate".

My response was not directed to answer your original question OP...

Also, lol at dropping the canister light, what's next? Backup lights, dive knife, backup mask, wetnotes, cut off the boltsnaps from all hoses, remove the buckle, cut off crotch strap. If using doubles, close off left post, remove and drop left post first stage with everything attached to it. Then, you can remove hip d-ring
Obviously, we'll all drop any gear if we think it'll save our life but *planning* to drop anything other than weights in case of a wing failure is just not serious.

... rather a ridiculous scenario with many unlikely failures to respond to another person. I accepted the premise in order to show how well the system adapts to even such failures.

 

[jeffmg]

Ok, so as I've stated I'm not DIR and I don't pretend to be.

For you DIR folks. Based on my SAC (pretty much right in the middle) I used double 100's prior to going closed circuit. I know other OC tech divers who use bigger tanks for the dives they do.

In my drysuit with my thickest undergarments in salt water the steel tanks with a AL 40 deco bottle has me overweighted with zero lead, what is the balanced rig answer to this?

As I stated above the DIR divers I know personally don't carry ditchable lead when they do need lead at all how does fit into the balanced rig?

alot of people who dive the caves in Florida in HP130s need no lead

the drysuit provides the redundant buoyancy needed in the event of a wing failure

 

[PR_SMITH]

Whatever chance you have of swimming up a wetsuit without a bcd you definitely won’t swim up a flooded bag suit. A flooded neoprene dry suit by ditching. Maybe.

Are you suggesting that having a flooded suit or either kind makes it negatively buoyant? Any water that gets into a suit doesn't make it heavier(until you exit the water)
I had a dive shop owner warn me that if my drysuit flooded, I would drown.

 

[inquis]

In my drysuit with my thickest undergarments in salt water the steel tanks with a AL 40 deco bottle has me overweighted with zero lead

Lighter plate?