DIR- GUE Balanced rig with a thick wetsuit - mathematically impossible?

[johndiver999]

Why would you have to drop your light to swim up if you are properly weighted?

because your wing failed? I thought that was obvious?

 

[JoeTPhilly]

because your wing failed? I thought that was obvious?

I guess you are missing the whole point of a balanced rig. If you had a balanced rig you would be able to swim up without dropping any weight.

 

[johndiver999]

I didn't yet see a balanced rig defined, does it include a weight belt?

 

[JoeTPhilly]

I didn't yet see a balanced rig defined, does it include a weight belt?

I don't think you are being serious but here it is again. A balanced rig refers to weighting to strike a balance considering two extremes; able to hold the shallowest stop (10 feet) with an empty wing and near empty tank(s) and the ability to comfortably swim up to the surface with a failed wing.

 

[overthinking_diver]

It has not been discussed in this thread I think, but to my limited "DIR" understanding, no open water emergency takes place solo

That is true, DIR divers and those who aspire to be DIR divers don't solo dive.

But again, this is not the balanced rig definition we are working with here. I thought we're all on the same page about the definition, but here it is from my Doubles workbook:

This configuration should allow divers to comfortably perform the shallowest required stop, assuming a nearly empty set of cylinders (when the rig is lightest), while also allowing the diver to swim to the surface from depth (at its heaviest) with a failed wing (BC)

It doesn't say "...allowing the diver to swim to the surface from depth (at its heaviest) with a failed wing (BC).. with the help of their teammate".

Also, lol at dropping the canister light, what's next? Backup lights, dive knife, backup mask, wetnotes, cut off the boltsnaps from all hoses, remove the buckle, cut off crotch strap. If using doubles, close off left post, remove and drop left post first stage with everything attached to it. Then, you can remove hip d-ring
Obviously, we'll all drop any gear if we think it'll save our life but *planning* to drop anything other than weights in case of a wing failure is just not serious.

 

[overthinking_diver]

OK, GUE seems to have conflicting views on removable weights.

From Doubles workbook (the very next sentence after the one I posted above):

The bottom line here, however, is that divers should be certain that, without any air in their buoyancy compensators, they are capable of swimming against the weight of their configuration with full tanks and all weight in place.

So, apparently removing weights is *not* considered a balanced rig.

But then the drysuit workbook disagrees:

In some cases, swimming one’s system from depth with a failed BC might require removing some weight, and this should be considered as part of the evaluation, i.e., how much weight should be removable.

No wonder there's so much debate re: ditachable weights

 

[crofrog]

The need to ditch weights to swim up is by definition an unbalanced rig. Therefore, if a 7mm suit is needed the diver would use the correct tool for the job; a drysuit.

In the book that JJ wrote it litterally mentions dropping the weight belt as part of the balanced rig concept

 

[johndiver999]

I am not deliberately being obtuse or trying to stir the pot. Perhaps DIR has not defined a balanced rig well. Whether it allows ditchable weight or not (and still be balanced) seems to be unclear, yet to me, this is the most basic of questions.

Also the idea that all (DIR) accidents happen only when diving as a team (apparently by definition) then it makes no sense to worry about carrying too much weight because.. hey your buddy will ALWAYS be there to use his BC to help haul your ass up should your BC fail.. Right? This reliance upon the omnipotent and ever-present buddy is not something that resonates well with me.

It has not been discussed in this thread I think, but to my limited "DIR" understanding, no open water emergency takes place solo. In the edge cases presented in this thread, there are other devices that could be utilized to store your 1500$ canister light, provide you with buoyancy control, etc. Most people call them buddies.

 

[Ayisha]

So you are saying that the concept of a "balanced rig" includes having a ditchable weight belt for example? I think a lot of people seem to think the definition precludes the use of ditchable lead.

I think the distinction, or at least agreement upon, the definition of "balanced rig" is critical.

There used to be more emphasis on ditchable weight in the past with GUE, and a balanced rig may or may not have included ditchable weight. Newer Fundies courses now seem to concentrate more on proper weighting, redundant buoyancy (drysuit, DSMB), and a balanced rig without the promotion of ditchable weight, but it is still mentioned.

They still tend to go through what can constitute removable weight - a can light, camera, DPV, removeable weights, etc.

They also sometimes go through how tech divers or especially exploration divers dive unbalanced, but have redundant buoyancy and are aware of everything they can ditch.

This is what the version of Fundamentals of Better Diving that was in place (until revamped) a couple of years ago stated about a Balanced Rig:

Fundamentals of Better Diving:

The ideal configuration for a diver is one that, while being as light as possible, allows him/her to remain neutral at 10 feet (3m) with a nearly empty set of tanks (to allow for decompression/safety stops). Quite often the only way to ensure this is to incorporate removable weights. Most divers carry this weight in the form of a belt that, in the event of an emergency, can be dropped; others carry this weight in the form of a canister light, which also can be dropped in the event of an emergency.

The bottom line here, however, is that divers should be certain that, without any air in their buoyancy compensators, they are capable of swimming against the weight of their configuration with full tanks and all weight in place. This would allow them to verify that they are able to manage their SCUBA configuration in the event of a buoyancy failure.

 

[formernuke]

Ok, so as I've stated I'm not DIR and I don't pretend to be.

For you DIR folks. Based on my SAC (pretty much right in the middle) I used double 100's prior to going closed circuit. I know other OC tech divers who use bigger tanks for the dives they do.

In my drysuit with my thickest undergarments in salt water the steel tanks with a AL 40 deco bottle has me overweighted with zero lead, what is the balanced rig answer to this?

As I stated above the DIR divers I know personally don't carry ditchable lead when they do need lead at all how does fit into the balanced rig?