Bahamas: Missing Female Diver

[LeadTurn_SD]

....If these things are not talked about BEFORE an accident the only time it will be addressed is after in a thread like this. The purpose of this part of the forum is to learn from this accident and I intend to push the topic with my LDS for their input.

Agree 100%. Especially thinking about and discussing the topic in advance.

A 2nd part of this should be to clearly communicate in a dive briefing the risks of diving along a "bottomless" wall. I think most good DM's already do this, but some may forget, get rushed, or take it for granted that the divers understand the risks involved.

A simple: "You need to monitor your depth very closely on this dive. Do not go below _____ feet. Narcosis and lack of a hard bottom at this site can quickly result in a dangerous situation, and if you accidently drop below _____ feet, we cannot help you. Divers have died at this site. So have fun, but pay very close attention and stay with the DM, etc., etc."

Best wishes.

 

[Rhone Man]

I would have thought dive operators would like to have policies in place for how far their staff are expected to go to rescue customers for their own protection. If a DM got seriously injured or died going down to 200 feet after somebody, you can bet your life that an employer's liability claim against the operator would be considered. Best defence is: we told you not to do that.

 

[cappyjon431]

I would have thought dive operators would like to have policies in place for how far their staff are expected to go to rescue customers for their own protection. If a DM got seriously injured or died going down to 200 feet after somebody, you can bet your life that an employer's liability claim against the operator would be considered. Best defence is: we told you not to do that.

I can't speak for all operators, but the one which I worked for for almost ten years had a very strict rule against crew members diving past 130' for any reason. Their rationale was multifold: 1. Liability-if a crew member gets hurt diving in excess of recreational dive limits, the company will end up paying a lot of money. 2. If a crew member gets hurt or dies diving deeper than recereational limits, you have many guests who could be angry if a trip is cut short for an evacuation or a body recovery. 3. It serves as a bad example. If the crew can dive deeper than 130', guests can legitimately ask "why can't I?"

Don't get me wrong, I love to dive deep (most of my friends know what the 431 in my screen name stands for ), but I certainly understood the rationale for my company's policy. That being said, sometimes a dive profesional's conscience outweighs a corporate policy. Fortunately I never had to dive too deeply to assist a rapidly descending diver, but if it was something I saw, I think I would have to say screw the policy.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

If these things are not talked about BEFORE an accident the only time it will be addressed is after in a thread like this. The purpose of this part of the forum is to learn from this accident and I intend to push the topic with my LDS for their input.

Exactly! The good DM should have a good handle on what they are capable of doing and also what they will do in situations that might commonly arise:

A diver falling down a wall
A bouyant diver shooting for the surface
A diver who runs completely out of air at depth
A diver who panics when their lips get wet upon entry
A diver who is hyperventilating, flailing around and looks ready to bolt for the surface
A diver who is paniced on the surface after a dive.
A diver who begins to climb an anchor line on a big boat in big seas while anchored in a current (that was a fun one for me).
A diver who enters a wreck and requires you to swim in 50 feet and lead them out.

And BEFORE the Dive: How far will you stick your neck out and risk looking like a know-it-all jerk in order to prevent a problem before it occurs:
Like how to handle:

A diver who is not properly equiped for a dive.
A diver who looks too nervous to safely make a dive
A diver who is obviously overly dependent on their buddy
How to explain the risks of a particular dive and try to get the diver to bail out on a dive on their own during the breifing (if that is necessary)


In many respects, a DM has a much harder job than an instructor because he is required to deal with completely unfamiliar divers and he needs to make decisions based on a gut feeling and experience.

 

[InTheDrink]

I haven't got a huge amount of sympathy for divers that knowingly go to dangerous depths or depths deeper than the max depth from the brief. Operating word is 'knowing' or 'intentionally'. Divers who know what they're doing and that then do something risky are on their own in my book. And if they put themselves in danger they are likely putting the whole group at risk for countless reasons. Sure save them if reasonable, but they're big boys and girls now. It is very selfish.

My exception to this rules is newbies. Standards are so low these days that is easy for a novice to get into a situation they have no understanding of. These people I don't hold to blame but I hope that a good DM knows the limitations of their group. Usually DMs will make sure everyone has done a check dive to ascertain their dive-level.

 

[danclem]

Sorry to get back to the incident, but I believe more information will surface as the investigation continues. I do not believe the interaction between the missing diver and DM has been fulluy covered. I did not see this interaction and have refrained from relaying what the witness to this event saw, and what the investigators retained by the insurance company representing the dive company relayed during their interviews.

I think it is appropriate to avoid pointing fingers as to whom might be at fault until more details emerge. Everyone involved views what happened through their own prisms, and it is really difficult to get a full picture until the investigation(s) are concluded.

I would also be careful about slamming the Bahamian media too strongly. A report did air on local TV, and there were several significant local events taking place: a young man in police custody killed, an MP locked out of Parliament for seeking to address the incident, and the fact that Friday, June 5 is a national holiday.

Most of us are aware of two or three things that might have, either alone or combined, caused this type of situation. There needs to be a fuller picture of what happened in this specific incident so we can best determine how to try and avoid similar events in the future.

Dan

 

[MEG DIVER]

Hello I was there the dive started out as any other a great place to dive being one of the first in the water I was also the first out follow by the DM or a guy and his wife who told me that the DM and her partner had got split , he brought this to her attention wile still on the dive ,she gets out of her gear goes to the bow of the boat and sits down with her back to us ,an starts texting someone. 6 to 8 minutes later the Instructor learns that we are missing a diver , he the goes to the DM on the bow and comes back quickly regears up an is back in the water from the time he got on the boat in less than 6 minutes ,searches for about 35 minutes with another diver and 3 others on top with snorkels, We had to pull anchor to pick up the instructor and the other diver some 200 to 300 yards away. After that a smaller dive boat cames in with 2 more divers on it in which Mr. Wood and his friend then got on that boat and we left ,we get stopped again by another dive boat and the DM gets on it an they make there way in. We dive the James Bond Wreck then we go in. All I can say is that I have learnd a lesson I will never leave my partner.

 

[Web Monkey]

Is it possible that the female dive master was just intimidated by flailing diver and was too afraid of having her own reg pulled out of her mouth so did not attempt to get behind her to grab her tank value? is it fair to say that a hired Dm should be able to go that one extra step?

I'd say so.

Gender aside, anybody who's going to be responsible for other divers needs to have the b***s to make a decision and implement it. If the DM got within grabbing distance, this should have been in the "near misses" section.

Am I the only one who's a little creeped out by these deaths while accompanied by a DM?

This is another instance where a nice shallow dive-site with a flat bottom and no DM would have made for safe dives all the way around.

"We're anchored in about 40' of water. jump in, stick with your buddy, have fun and don't touch anything. When you or your buddy hits 900 PSI, come back up the line.. Don't forget your safety stop, and enjoy!"

Why is this not happening? What's the profit motive for taking new divers to places where they can get killed?

Terry

 

[MEG DIVER]

the DM was a she

 

[MEG DIVER]

thats what I would have like to have done but the wall is a great dive ,and I truely think that this is not about lacation it about keeping up with your dive partner , its a bad thing ,when this happen it left me with an empty gut feeling. I only wish my partner an myself would have been the last ones in .