Michael Folise
Contributor
MEG DIVER: Please use punctuation. I can't follow your posts!
Bahamas: Missing Female Diver
- Thread starter danclem
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You're kidding, right? You start reading this thread and all you can find to comment on is the writing style of someone who gave us good info weeks ago? If you had read another page or two, you'd have seen other helpful suggestions, just like yours, posted and responded to.
ItsBruce
Contributor
2 more cents from Bruce:
Having an urge to do something, like attempt a macho rescue, and doing the Right Thing, like staying with your buddy, are two completely different things. That one can resist an urge and can do the Right Thing, is a sign of maturity and competence and other favorable traits.
Having an urge to do something, like attempt a macho rescue, and doing the Right Thing, like staying with your buddy, are two completely different things. That one can resist an urge and can do the Right Thing, is a sign of maturity and competence and other favorable traits.
Only halcyon
Registered
I was reading through alot of the posts since obviously this event is on my mind a lot, and I keep reading that the DM with Ms Wood was hired to buddy with with her. I feel that this is not entirely true. From what I learend after the dive the DM was asked to buddy with Ms Wood but was not on a specific contract with extra payment. She was one of or DM's that day and obviously buddied with Ms Wood but I think to use the word hired implies that she agreed to give Ms Wood special attention and that she was at risk with out her own personal DM. I don't even think Stuart Cove offer this service.
My wife and I were talking over what she had read in response to my posts since we havn't really talked alot about what I wanted to do but didn't. Sure we have talked about the general facts of the dive etc but I kind of held back on my thoughts and feelings relating to the urge to leave her and take charge of what was happening. after reading the posts bashing the DM for not stepping up I find it strange that no one has ever mentioned her husband? He was in fact diving with us that morning and new far more about her than anyone. If she had indeed had a stoke he would have know how serious and to what level of supervision she would require, if she should have been diving at all? Thats like giving a mechanic the keys to your car knowing the brakes may fail but not telling him and blaming him for crashing your car. (im in the car biz so its the best I could come up with) Ms Wood was in a group of 3, her husband and a freind of her husbands, but you have to ask yourself what diver in their right mind would let his wife dive and not be behind her keeping and eye on her.? Given all that he knew that had happend prior to that morning! My wife told me that she didn't feel 100% that morning and I focused on every movement she made that dive. Even though she kept giving me the OK signal I knew she was having a stressful dive. To bash the DM who had far less understanding of Ms Wood just doesn't seem right.
Don't get me wrong before this dive I held resort DM up high and thought that they would make sure nothing bad happened on the dive, but it is obviously not true and after great thought its not really fair to hold them accountable when things go wrong.
Every diver should make every effort to ensure their own safety, if you don't have the skills get them, if your buddy drifts to far away follow them don't expect them to chase you, its YOUR life line incase things go wrong.
My wife and I were talking over what she had read in response to my posts since we havn't really talked alot about what I wanted to do but didn't. Sure we have talked about the general facts of the dive etc but I kind of held back on my thoughts and feelings relating to the urge to leave her and take charge of what was happening. after reading the posts bashing the DM for not stepping up I find it strange that no one has ever mentioned her husband? He was in fact diving with us that morning and new far more about her than anyone. If she had indeed had a stoke he would have know how serious and to what level of supervision she would require, if she should have been diving at all? Thats like giving a mechanic the keys to your car knowing the brakes may fail but not telling him and blaming him for crashing your car. (im in the car biz so its the best I could come up with) Ms Wood was in a group of 3, her husband and a freind of her husbands, but you have to ask yourself what diver in their right mind would let his wife dive and not be behind her keeping and eye on her.? Given all that he knew that had happend prior to that morning! My wife told me that she didn't feel 100% that morning and I focused on every movement she made that dive. Even though she kept giving me the OK signal I knew she was having a stressful dive. To bash the DM who had far less understanding of Ms Wood just doesn't seem right.
Don't get me wrong before this dive I held resort DM up high and thought that they would make sure nothing bad happened on the dive, but it is obviously not true and after great thought its not really fair to hold them accountable when things go wrong.
Every diver should make every effort to ensure their own safety, if you don't have the skills get them, if your buddy drifts to far away follow them don't expect them to chase you, its YOUR life line incase things go wrong.
A very legitimate question, one that has not been discussed on this board (except for a very brief/vague mention of life insurance policies early in the thread). I wonder if her "strong personality" (as mentioned earlier in the thread) offset any concerns her husband may have had. I realize that this would just add further conjecture to the discussion, but I am curious as to the husband's role in the incident.
A lot of married people I know don't dive with each other all of the time for this precise reason (the overly protective instinct that presumptively inspired your quotation)...one spouse or the other gets too consumed with watching out for the other one that he/she doesn't enjoy the dive. I know that I'm this way in many respects. I love diving with my wife, but when I do, I watch her with an eagle eye, almost distractingly so. If I know and trust someone else's ability, I'm happy to have her buddy with him/her and I with someone else. Again, though, it has to be someone we know, so we never do this while traveling, but I could see how one would, especially if traveling with a third.
This further illustrates to me an issue highlighted by this thread: one should not take as a given that resort DMs are great divers/buddies. They certainly may be, and usually are, but due diligence is required.
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If the DM was leading a dozen people around on a tour, I'd agree that there's no way the DM would even know anything was wrong until the boat count came up short.
However, if a single diver hires a professional as a buddy, the minimum expectation would be that the diver has hired a very competent buddy.
A very competent buddy will not let the other diver simply head off into the deep blue yonder when it's not part of the plan.
Terry
LeadTurn_SD
Contributor
Again, 1+ what Terry said.
It is possible for someone to "wander off" if they really work at it when a DM is guiding a large group.
It should be impossible for this to happen if the DM is hired as your personal buddy, assuming the DM is doing their job.
Best wishes.
It is possible for someone to "wander off" if they really work at it when a DM is guiding a large group.
It should be impossible for this to happen if the DM is hired as your personal buddy, assuming the DM is doing their job.
Best wishes.
What onlyhalcion is saying is that he believes that the DM wasn't specifically hired as a buddy to Mrs. Wood, but rather just served that role because she didn't otherwise have a buddy. That is in slight contradiction with an earlier post by one of the people present that said the boat had to delay departure while the DM was hired to buddy with Mrs. Wood.
In any case, there was a pro diver acting as buddy to the victim. If anyone should know enough to find out a little bit about their buddy's skills and intentions, it should be a pro diver. That pro buddy, hired as a guardian or not, should have recognized that something was wrong with her buddy and acted more decisively.
There was talk a few days ago about a young/new fireman deciding the job wasn't for him when he ran into a child victim. Thus seems like the type of event that would have the DM questioning whether this is the job for her. I can't imagine the DM walking away from this and not feeling that she bears significant responsibility for the death of this victim. If that doesn't get you thinking, I don't know what does. Seeing death is one thing, but knowing that you failed to prevent it when you could have is quite another.
As far as the husband goes, it was reported that he was diving with his own buddy separate from his wife. I can understand how some may feel he had some responsibility before the dive to discourage her participation or to inform the dive op of her condition, but that's only a factor if he knew she was at risk. Once they were in the water, he may as well have been 1000 miles away in terms of his involvement in this issue.
In any case, there was a pro diver acting as buddy to the victim. If anyone should know enough to find out a little bit about their buddy's skills and intentions, it should be a pro diver. That pro buddy, hired as a guardian or not, should have recognized that something was wrong with her buddy and acted more decisively.
There was talk a few days ago about a young/new fireman deciding the job wasn't for him when he ran into a child victim. Thus seems like the type of event that would have the DM questioning whether this is the job for her. I can't imagine the DM walking away from this and not feeling that she bears significant responsibility for the death of this victim. If that doesn't get you thinking, I don't know what does. Seeing death is one thing, but knowing that you failed to prevent it when you could have is quite another.
As far as the husband goes, it was reported that he was diving with his own buddy separate from his wife. I can understand how some may feel he had some responsibility before the dive to discourage her participation or to inform the dive op of her condition, but that's only a factor if he knew she was at risk. Once they were in the water, he may as well have been 1000 miles away in terms of his involvement in this issue.
ItsBruce
Contributor
In my experience, resort DMs are pretty good at making sure nothing bad happens. But that does not mean that they guarantee that nothing bad will happen.
What is the joke about being unable to make anything idiot-proof because the idiots are so ingenious?
A resort DM can probably keep most routine bad things from happening, but a diver dead set on screwing up will probably be able to circumvent most DMs' best efforts. (Most does not mean the most highly trained team divers or those who will undertake MACHO rescue efforts.)
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