Bahamas: Missing Female Diver

[stadevene]

When Mrs. Woods first started acting strangely (blew the dive plan, ignored the DM), a good buddy or DM would simply assume she was incompetent and bring her to the surface.

This requires nothing more than what is taught in SSI's Stress and Rescue class, and although I have no direct knowledge of it, I would expect other agencies are very similar.

I've read this a couple of times today and it's bothered me each time I've read it. What this says to me is I wouldn't be a good buddy. I am quite sure I would not have immediately recognized she was incompetent or assumed she was incompetent...if that's what she actually was. If I'm in my dive as say 80, look over the the wall, and then look back and see my buddy at 100 and dropping I'm pretty confident I wouldn't be able to bring her to the surface. I would have attempted to get her attention and probably gone down a little deeper but I'm not chasing her below 100. I don't know how I'd react below 100 and would probably end up a second victim.

I'm reminded of ahpoolman's video where he saved the two kids from certain death. I would not have been able to do that. I currently don't have the rescue training nor the experience at that depth.

If being unable to recognize alleged incompetence in seconds and bring someone up from the deep means I'm a bad buddy, I guess I'm ok with that for now. Perhaps as you say rescue training would give me the tools to be able to react...but I'm not sure solely having the rescue card should be a benchmark to place someone into the good buddy category.

I think your intent was to state a buddy with proper training may have recognized early warning signs and been able to bring her to the surface.

...and now I'm off to see if there is an SSI centre in my area...

 

[Sloth]

I hope no one in this thread really looks at tourist DMs as anything more then tour guides and sherpa. There is always a chance that you are getting a DM that is 50 dives out of OW. Unless you are fresh out of OW then the only thing of value you should expect from a DM is dive site information, boat procedures and where all the cool stuff underwater is. Sure you might get lucky and get a DM with 1000s of dives but I wouldn't count on it. I sure as hell am not going to assume the DM is going to keep me safe nor am I going to put blame on a DM when a diver does something incredibly stupid.

It's amazing the number of people in this thread that are faulting the DM on this fiasco. Seems to me that this lady did exactly what she wanted to do.

 

[Only halcyon]

First, let me say, it is great to have you posting here, since you were actually part of this dive.

I have so many questions I would love to ask. I tend to be more interested in Ms. Woods and her demeanor, mind set and motivations for her actions as has been described. Of course she is the only one who could shed light on the absolute truth. And we will never have that.

What do you conclude as you mull this over in your mind? Was she acting ?narced?, defiant against someone directing her in what to do? Or hell bent on descending willfully? Or just seeming confused? This part of the scenario just really is key to me in the puzzle of what occurred here.

Thanks for any insight you can shed,
Mary

Its hard to coment on Ms Wood's demeanor or state of mind since I didn't get a chance to talk wit her or even mix with her pre dive. I do recall seing her on the boardwalk leading to the boat around 20mins prior to boarding that morning. She was trying on wetsuits and getting a weight belt at that time. My wife and I both comented on the fact that she was by far the oldest person at Stuart Cove. A coment like ' I hope we are still diving at that age'. She was thin and moved around with ease. The most noticable thing that caught both of our attention was that she was wearing makeup, eyeliner blush etc. Given that even the cute young girls were with out make up it was noticable. The third time we noticed her was on board the boat during the dive breif. A DM was giving the usual boat orientation and just after they told us that the bin filled with water infront of the DM was for underwater cameras only Ms Wood came from the back fo the boat and tried to wash her mask in it. This lead to a quick one liner from the DM giving the speach and all of the divers paying attention laughed lightly. Ms Wood moved to the back of the boat and thats the last time I saw her until the incident.

As I watched the incident unfold, I would say that she didn't look narced, or out of control / in trouble. When I saw her decending I thought that (and at this point i did not know that it was a woman) she had maybe seen a shark. We had been told that Hammerhead sharks had been seen in the area only days before. Since my decision to dive in the Bahamas was to see sharks I had a heightned interest in what was happening and was paying close attention to the diver/depth and was looking ahead of her and below to see if I could see what I thought she was seeming to move toward. At that moment I thought Ms Wood was man because of the decision to leave the general depth of the group and decend below 100ft and while decending brush off the attempt of a buddy to make contact. She most definatly looked from where I was which was about 20ft above and about 15ft behind with very good viz that she was incontrol and heading somewhere.

It was shortly after this time that the urge to drop down and take charge of the situation was strongest. I was now about 30ft above Ms Wood and the DM , my wife was maybe 15ft / 18ft above me. I looked up at my wife in some kind of hope that she would give me an ok sign to do what I wanted to do, but she didn't. Instead I could see in her eyes that she was having a rough dive and looked stressed. I knew here ears were bothering her and we had now fallen behind the group and I was 95% focused on what was happening below instead of on her. My wife gave me the 'buddy sign' come up to her depth and closer, I looked down for a few more seconds and began to move up to my wifes depth. Looking back I still feel that if I had only followed my gut feeling to drop and take charge of the situation Ms Wood would have been brought to the surface I am 99% sure of that. I remember thinking the viz is good I am with in my skill level, I would have to be quick to catch her but I had plenty of air, I felt good and had seen most of what had happened prior and knew what I had to do and how I would do it. But I didn't.. I watched and as every second passed so did my chance to save a life. I keep telling myself that I did the right thing by staying with my buddy and more so that my buddy happened to be my wife, but in hind sight deep down I felt that my wife would be ok her issues weren't that serious more mental than life endangering, but what was happening below was very serious.

I think that covered most of what you were asking if not let me know and I will try to answer if I have the info.

I do have to say that I disagree with the last post that people who can't swim shouldn't dive. I myself am a terrible swimmer and found it very difficult to complete the swim required to passthe open water cert. I have never been a strong swimmer dispite working out regularly and being in very good shape I am not a confident swimmer at all, its just doesn't seem to be my thing. But under the water I feel comfortable and very relaxed. My wife on the other hand is a great swimmer and not as comfortable a diver as I am. I don't belive that swimming ability has anything at all to do with a persons potential to become a good diver.

 

[ItsBruce]

I started to explain my thoughts then decided I was not adequately clear in my own mind, so I abandoned the idea.

I will give the matter some thought and see if, with discussion, we can come up with a buddy protocol that we might submit to the certifying agencies for consideration as an official protocol or perhaps the beginnings of one.

This might be best discussed elsewhere.

I think I'm going to have to review some of the other threads and see if I can solidify my thoughts on being a buddy.

 

[Riger]

........ I keep telling myself that I did the right thing by staying with my buddy .......

I am convinced that any choice that you could make could have had negative impact in some way and a positive impact in another.

I am thankfull that I was not in your position on that day, however it is my opinion that based on the description of events, you made the correct choice.

As far as priorities go for an individual diver, I (you) must always be #1, your buddy #2 and everything else is a judgement call based on circumstance.

When I tried to imagine myself in your position, I would have to say I would have done the same thing.

If my buddy was not uncomfortable (your buddy was uncomfortable, as you described Instead I could see in her eyes that she was having a rough dive and looked stressed. I knew here ears were bothering her....) I would have instructed her to watch me as I went further down, perhaps got her to wait at 30m (100') as I went as far as 40m (130') ....... but that's about it, anything beyond that would be beyond my limits to fetch anybody other than my own children or spouse (I actually do not know how I would react to save my own family).

The Bottom Line is that you cannot beat yourself up for what happened or for how you could have reacted differently. You brought your buddy back from a stressful dive, that's a good thing.

Best Regards

Richard

 

[iztok]

Looking back I still feel that if I had only followed my gut feeling to drop and take charge of the situation Ms Wood would have been brought to the surface I am 99% sure of that.

Yes, you might have gotten Ms. Wood out but it could have cost you a life of your wife.

Your wife was distressed, she signaled you that she is not within the comfort zone and asked to buddy with her.

Where I come from family comes first and I would NOT risk it.

While you might not feel like it right now and are convinced that your decision cost Ms Wood's her life I think you did the right thing and should never doubt that (based on what you've wrote). You should move on. It seems it was Ms Wood's decision that cost her her life. Your primary responsibility is to your family and yourself and you did what you supposed to do, take care of it.

I can only imagine how you feel responsible and bit stressed out because you feel you didn't go after her. However just imagine the other way around. You go after her and there are two scenarios that were very real that could be worse.

1. Ms. Wood causes you to drown as well.

2. Your wife (who was your buddy at the time) panics and drowns while you are saving Ms Wood.

While less likely the above two could happen in such a situation. Could you live with #2 (obviously with #1 you were dead)? I couldn't.

Not saying that current situation wouldn't cause me few sleepless nights but you did the right thing and you had the priorities right!

 

[Ann Marie]

IMO Dive Masters wear many hats depending on the role that they happen to be fulfilling at that moment. A DM that is hired to lead a dive such as those in tropical waters have limited responsibility for the certified diver. They are there to provide supervision and dive management skills. Each diver needs to asses their own skills and determine if the planned dive is appropriate for them and their buddy. Let's not forget that based on statements made, the DM attempted to provide rescue skills but was unsuccessful. This DM also has a responsibility to himself and to the other divers.

I know it may sound harsh, but in OW training my students are taught and evaluated for the ability to ascend, drop their weights, the use of a power inflater, and the ability to kick. PADI recommends that a new diver without proper training dive no deeper than 60 feet.

There is a point when one has to draw the line between being able to respond to an emergency and to stop because you are putting yourself or others at risk. For each person, the line is different and we should not judge where it falls for another person.

For the diver that didn't leave his buddy/wife: I can understand your angst and am so sorry that you are having to question your actions. I think that you did the right thing in not leaving your buddy completely to try and assist. Your buddy was having problems. Even if it was just difficulty in clearing her ears it was still an issue. Most incidents start with a small problem being overlooked or ignored. I know that if I were on that dive, I would have questioned myself and shouldered some blame in not providing assistance. At some point, this diver should have assessed her own skills and made the decision on how she was going to execute this dive.

 

[bowlofpetunias]

There is a point when one has to draw the line between being able to respond to an emergency and to stop because you are putting yourself or others at risk. For each person, the line is different and we should not judge where it falls for another person.

For the diver that didn't leave his buddy/wife: I can understand your angst and am so sorry that you are having to question your actions. I think that you did the right thing in not leaving your buddy completely to try and assist. Your buddy was having problems. Even if it was just difficulty in clearing her ears it was still an issue. Most incidents start with a small problem being overlooked or ignored. I know that if I were on that dive, I would have questioned myself and shouldered some blame in not providing assistance. At some point, this diver should have assessed her own skills and made the decision on how she was going to execute this dive.

Brilliantly put!

 

[bowlofpetunias]

Here is a thought; In this thread we have been focusing on the DM as a buddy and the buddy made some apparently irrational decisions to venture into the depths (never mind what the DM should or should not have done for a moment).

What if this was an insta-buddy for you or I that on the surface (pun intended) appeared of sound mind and skill sets, had a few hundred dives and was for all appearances just like you and I but underwater ..... followed a profile like Mrs. Woods? What would the reasonable buddy be expected to do (assuming no specialist training)?

Best Regards

Richard

I am not sure that I would have recognized the diver as being in trouble from the description of the events. Had I been buddied with her I am not sure I would have done anything different from the DM. Try to get her attention.. try to get her to come up to the right depth. I would not have descended any deeper than I felt was safe.

I worked with Radha for over 6 years in Orinda. When she first spoke with me about diving I was very suprised she got certified without ever learning to swim! I did my best to convince her diving and not being able to swim was a deadly mixture. I am a DM myself and tried as I may I could not talk sense into her. I'm very sorry to hear about her accident, but it was bound to happen. I didn't hear about the stroke the month prior to the accident, but I do know she had one about a year and a half ago. Jayjones post #372 mentioned Radha's being, shall we say a little head strong, that's putting it mildly. Not to speak ill of the dead but she could be very pushy/rude and had definate opinions on things and didn't care about yours.
As a diver I'm sad to hear of the loss, it hurts us all. As a person, well that's a different story, shall I say, I have a definate opinion on that myself it's probably better I don't share openly.

Thank you for this very interesting insight into Mrs Woods personality. It seems consistent with the impression I have from comments within the posts here.

This is where I set my limits... Life is about Choices... People have a right to make choices about their actions and accept the consequences of those choices be they positive or negative. I have a right to make my Choices and no one has the right to take that right away because of THEIR Choices. I choose to safely dive within my training and ability. When I do a dive that may push my limits I control the risks by choosing my buddy carefully. Ultimately I am responsible to keep myself out of trouble or get myself out of it if the unexpected happens. I owe it to my family and loved ones to consider the impact of my actions on them and put their needs BEFORE others.

After working in the Ambulance Service for a few years I got a different perspective on life in general and heroes in particular. I have done things that others might consider heroic.. now I see them as foolish and selfish. My son had a right to have a mother. IMHO People who put their lives on the line with bad choices do not necessarily deserve the sacrifice of another person's life to save them from their consequences! Before you judge me or others, ask yourself if you have walked a path that qualifies you to do so.

(let the flaming begin)

 

[ScubaSteve]

I am not sure that I would have recognized the diver as being in trouble from the description of the events. Had I been buddied with her I am not sure I would have done anything different from the DM. Try to get her attention.. try to get her to come up to the right depth. I would not have descended any deeper than I felt was safe.

I do not think you are alone here.

........This is where I set my limits... Life is about Choices... People have a right to make choices about their actions and accept the consequences of those choices be they positive or negative. I have a right to make my Choices and no one has the right to take that right away because of THEIR Choices. I choose to safely dive within my training and ability. When I do a dive that may push my limits I control the risks by choosing my buddy carefully. Ultimately I am responsible to keep myself out of trouble or get myself out of it if the unexpected happens. I owe it to my family and loved ones to consider the impact of my actions on them and put their needs BEFORE others.

After working in the Ambulance Service for a few years I got a different perspective on life in general and heroes in particular. I have done things that others might consider heroic.. now I see them as foolish and selfish. My son had a right to have a mother. IMHO People who put their lives on the line with bad choices do not necessarily deserve the sacrifice of another person's life to save them from their consequences! Before you judge me or others, ask yourself if you have walked a path that qualifies you to do so.

(let the flaming begin)

:flame: (joking of course)

I personally think that that is the most well rounded outlook possible. Mine is the same. I personally would NEVER want anybody to get hurt (or worse) saving (or trying to) me from a bad decision.

I got into this sport because I love it. I am aware of the dangers as do my family and loved ones. I know my dive buddy loves it as much as I do and I would hope that my buddy would make a solid effort to save me if ever required. I would, however, rather they make a solid effort and fail (but surface safely themselves) than have them perish in the process as well.

I will treat every situation the same way. If ever called upoin, I plan on doing everything I can humanly do up until the point where I believe I am personally (or a loved one) is in real danger. I plan on being around to annoy my family with my scuba obsession for along time to come. There is but one things that will change that......Fate. When my time comes, I will stop. Otherwise, I will not do anything that I deem to be inviting death.