Bahamas: Missing Female Diver

[ItsBruce]

OK, makes bit more sense now.

Here is my 2 cents for what is worth (coming from someone with 11 logged dives).

1. I would not dive with an experienced diver to go beyond my comfort level, that includes deep dives. Not until I finish my deep dive specialty and become AOW and am comfortable doing so.

2. I value open dialog/opinions when it comes to pre-dive planning. And finding the right buddy for the planned dive is important.

3. If everyone has a buddy (pre-existing pairs) and two are only one left I feel that dive should be within the comfort zone and experience level of the least experienced diver. I don't feel peer pressure should be deciding factor and seeing some cool hammersharks on the expense of safety is not my thing.

4. At the end if you are "stuck" with someone like me who doesn't feel comfortable going to 100ft and I am your only choice. Too bad, you either dive more conservative dive or I don't dive (which in most cases means you don't have a buddy to dive with).

So in my personal case I either dive conservatively within my comfort zone (or with instructor to teach me new skill out of my comfort zone at the time) or I will sit out the dive.

Hope that makes sense.

I've expressed my thoughts on insta-buddies several times in the past. My premise is that a buddy is like a piece of gear. If I fail to bring it, I need to borrow one. In that event, I can't complain it is not as good as what I'd like. I either use it or sit out the dive. That being said, if I have a choice of buddies, I have no problem diving with newer divers if I get the impression they are generally safe and want to improve and if the dive is not one where I've come a long way or spent a great deal of money to do. If it is one I've come a long way to do or am paying a lot to do, I'll opt for a buddy who I feel will be safe and whose skills are comparable to mine.

 

[Riger]

I've expressed my thoughts on insta-buddies several times in the past. My premise is that a buddy is like a piece of gear. If I fail to bring it, I need to borrow one. In that event, I can't complain it is not as good as what I'd like. I either use it or sit out the dive. That being said, if I have a choice of buddies, I have no problem diving with newer divers if I get the impression they are generally safe and want to improve and if the dive is not one where I've come a long way or spent a great deal of money to do. If it is one I've come a long way to do or am paying a lot to do, I'll opt for a buddy who I feel will be safe and whose skills are comparable to mine.

This line of discussion is becoming interesting.

I agree with your sentiments ItsBruce and for this reason my wife and I dive together, its something we enjoy together and (within reason) we do not dive without each other. There have been some exceptions where I have tweaked my back on a liveaboard and sat out for a dive or two. In this case we had been on the boat long enough to have established groups of like-minded divers and she easily fitted in with another pair to make up a buddy-trio.

Here is a thought; In this thread we have been focusing on the DM as a buddy and the buddy made some apparently irrational decisions to venture into the depths (never mind what the DM should or should not have done for a moment).

What if this was an insta-buddy for you or I that on the surface (pun intended) appeared of sound mind and skill sets, had a few hundred dives and was for all appearances just like you and I but underwater ..... followed a profile like Mrs. Woods? What would the reasonable buddy be expected to do (assuming no specialist training)?

Best Regards

Richard

 

[bowlofpetunias]

I didnt intend to come across sounding like I wouldnt buddy with a 'newer' diver for the want of a better word. I would base my decision on who to buddy with based on my planned dive. Its hardly right for a diver to buddy up with someone who is open water certified when on a sea wall where hammerhead sharks were spotted at 100ft the morning before. I personaly feel like its asking for trouble.

I didn't read it that you wouldn't buddy with a newer diver onlyhalcyon. Anyone with any sense having just experienced what you had would feel the same way.. Credit to you for getting back in the water so quickly many would not be able to and that is a resaonable response too.

I'm with you.. the dive plan determines who I will accept as a buddy. I enjoy the way new divers make the experience "fresh" for me again. Seeing the excitement in their eyes when they see their first _____ reminds me just how special it is to be able to dive.

I have refused to buddy with people I didn't feel safe to dive with for any reason.. it is MY LIFE on the line. No one should allow themselves to be pressured into doing any dive anywhere, anytime with anybody! The potential costs are just too high!

 

[Kksmama]

What if this was an insta-buddy for you or I that on the surface (pun intended) appeared of sound mind and skill sets, had a few hundred dives and was for all appearances just like you and I but underwater .....
\
Excellent question, I hope we get a variety of answers. I'm fortunate to have my husband (now we each take one of our teenagers) as buddy but this is something to have thought out in advance - along with various "can I buddy with you?" scenarios. It would be awkward to say no...but I can't imagine my teen and I taking on the responsibility for a "Mrs. Woods".

 

[alohagal]

I havn't been too vocal on this thread not for the want of saying what happened that morning, more due to the fact that I don't really have the free time to read what is only speculation. Of course I have my own interp of what happened that morning, I have rolled it around in my mind hundreds of times that if only I had left my wife and took charge of the situation Ms Wood would have made it top side. As I was watching the events unfold it was also very hard to process what was really happening. By that I mean that I could see some thing that looked not right, I felt it but when you process the info, you have to take a reality check and ask yourself it what you think you are seeing is realy happening. lets face it many dives will never see a diver intentionaly push away a DM and continue towards serious danger. Anyone would recognise a diver showing visible signs of distress, but this was not the case infact quite the opposite. Ms Woods actions seemed calm and with intent, almost like the DM was over reacting by touching her.

After the dive and talikng with my wife I learned that DM's in vaccation spots are little more than glorified tour guides, and I don't mean that to sound at all negative. What I mean is, they may well know the water, current , dive site, local conditions etc but when the chips are down who realy has your back? YOUR BUDDY!!! Can any of us realy expect a DM to know our dive limits, health, frame of mind, or to spot an action which is out of the norm. If I were to place my wife and I in that exact situation I would know in seconds that there was an issue. My wife never dives deeper than me! A sign. She moving away from me and decendingis something that has never happened! unresponsive to signaling and so on. A DM has to process this and wonder what is happening. It is unfair to hold a DM 100% responsible for what happened.

Of course I can't help feeling that if I were in the DM's position that this would not have happened. I know that if it were my wife down there I would have been able to manage the situation. It is very easy to grab a tank valve and take 100% control of that diver. I found this out first hand around 3 years ago while diving in Thailand when a fellow diver thought it would be funny to scare me, by grabing my tank valve and hiding behind me while a huge Titan Trigger fish sped towards our group. I was totaly helpless and couldnt move and at the time couldnt understand why. Topside it became a big joke at my expense, but I will always remember the feeling.

Even now I think about that morning not in trauma but analitical, I did have the op to help even if only for around 7 seconds after the 7 seconds had passed it was outside of what was reasonably possible. And if had chosen to leave my buddy I would have endangered the one person whom I had an unspoken agrement to help survive if the need arose.

My wife din't dive for the remainder of or vaccation while I chose to contine. I have to admit that I gave greater attention to whom I would buddy with. In the past I would buddy up with anyone the DM selected no matter what the cert level was. Not so now. I watched how single divers set up their equipment, what equipment they had, was it their own or rental. Talked to them and made the decision. I don't want to baby sit a new diver or put my safety in obvious danger. When we are on dives DM's are very often too far away to assist if there is an issue and its not their fault, they are typicaly young kids living out a lifestyle of free diving and fun in the sun while barely paying the bills for an apartment and beer money how can any of us entrust our lives to them? Its not fair to expect that of them and even more foolish of us to place such trust in them. I'm not saying they don't do a great job and help us enjoy dives, that they do very well, but they are not there to watch over each and every diver, its just not possible.

First, let me say, it is great to have you posting here, since you were actually part of this dive.

I have so many questions I would love to ask. I tend to be more interested in Ms. Woods and her demeanor, mind set and motivations for her actions as has been described. Of course she is the only one who could shed light on the absolute truth. And we will never have that.

What do you conclude as you mull this over in your mind? Was she acting ?narced?, defiant against someone directing her in what to do? Or hell bent on descending willfully? Or just seeming confused? This part of the scenario just really is key to me in the puzzle of what occurred here.

Thanks for any insight you can shed,
Mary

 

[dmoore19]

I have followed this thread from the beginning. I have read all 745 posts. After all of this I have made some changes to my thinking. I am in the 50+ category. I have wanted to learn to dive since I can remember but other things in life prevented it. Finally, last year, I (with encouragement from my wife a non-diver) decided to do it. After getting my OW cert I had thought that I would stick to the easier dives. No cold water stuff, good visibility, +/-40', some photography. A very conservative approach to a wonderful sport. I went on my first trip last November. What an experience!!! It was everything I could have hoped for and much more. I had decided that the OW cert would be all that I would need. After having followed this thread in search of knowledge and reasons I have changed my mind. I will be seeking futher education. If only once a person could have the training and knowledge to save anothers life or to attempt to save anothers life..........

The posts about DM's good and bad have brought that part of diving to light as well. I no longer look at the DM as a insurance policy for safety. The DM's I have been around were great but the realization that they can't be there for everything hit home. I also realize that I am going to have to get more practice, there's nothing wrong with that!

Thank you all for the eyeopening posts and speculations. It has put diving safety in a new category. I try to be safe but now realize that things happen.

 

[RV]

I've just returned from NAS and diving on the White Bungie. All in all I think Stuart's Cove did a fairly good job. They went out of their way for me several times. I did see several inexperienced divers, including children and they didn't seem to keep very control over the divers and their whereabouts.

It was however my first Caribbean dive to see other divers with BP/Wings (Halcyon, OMS, and my DSS), including the ST'Cove photographer and his necklace mounted 2nd.. Even a few with long hoses.
I felt safe but then again, I was responsible for my own safety.

My one real complaint was the very short surface intervals.

 

[Web Monkey]

After having followed this thread in search of knowledge and reasons I have changed my mind. I will be seeking futher education. If only once a person could have the training and knowledge to save anothers life or to attempt to save anothers life..........

The posts about DM's good and bad have brought that part of diving to light as well. I no longer look at the DM as a insurance policy for safety. The DM's I have been around were great but the realization that they can't be there for everything hit home. I also realize that I am going to have to get more practice, there's nothing wrong with that!

Thank you all for the eyeopening posts and speculations. It has put diving safety in a new category. I try to be safe but now realize that things happen.

Congratulations on your decision! It will make your diving much safer and may save someone else's life.

When Mrs. Woods first started acting strangely (blew the dive plan, ignored the DM), a good buddy or DM would simply assume she was incompetent and bring her to the surface. While the reason for her action may be interesting and could be discussed back on the boat, the main goal is to not have the diver die or become injured.

This requires nothing more than what is taught in SSI's Stress and Rescue class, and although I have no direct knowledge of it, I would expect other agencies are very similar.

Since the above training is required for any professional certification, I'm still a little confused as to how Mrs. Woods' buddy (DM) was unable to prevent her descent.

Terry

 

[d_lafleur]

Since the above training is required for any professional certification, I'm still a little confused as to how Mrs. Woods' buddy (DM) was unable to prevent her descent.

Terry

I agree, something got missed at the point of the plan getting blown.

When I dive outside of the "DM dive plan", my buddy and I have already planned our dive and I let the "DM" know, if there is one on the dive, our intentions after the briefing. There is no point in taking away from the rest of the group for something that is in the plan. However it also lets someone outside of my buddy and I know our intentions. I typically try not to deviate too far from the "DM Plan" However I do want the freedom to chase the odd sighting with my buddy.


Dmoore19, you will never regret that decision, I am enjoying every next step in the training, the more I learn the more comfortable I get. It also gives me reasons to do "check out" and "skill improvement" dives, so the wife is a bit more leniant, as I am the buddy and DM for her children.

 

[Scubaon]

I worked with Radha for over 6 years in Orinda. When she first spoke with me about diving I was very suprised she got certified without ever learning to swim! I did my best to convince her diving and not being able to swim was a deadly mixture. I am a DM myself and tried as I may I could not talk sense into her. I'm very sorry to hear about her accident, but it was bound to happen. I didn't hear about the stroke the month prior to the accident, but I do know she had one about a year and a half ago. Jayjones post #372 mentioned Radha's being, shall we say a little head strong, that's putting it mildly. Not to speak ill of the dead but she could be very pushy/rude and had definate opinions on things and didn't care about yours.
As a diver I'm sad to hear of the loss, it hurts us all. As a person, well that's a different story, shall I say, I have a definate opinion on that myself it's probably better I don't share openly.