Bad vis. How bad is too bad?

[tbone1004]

Our students are independent from me on every dive except the first one. On the first one they kick out to the bus and do a skills checklist then follow me home underwater. They have the AI's above them, one or more per team.
Dives 2-4 are independent buddy navigation, so I see them pretty much when they leave and when they get back, and usually chill somewhere in the middle to see them halfway through. They either have an AI above them, or a boat bumper attached to one of their tanks if we're short AI's. They are in touch contact through the majority of the dive since they are navigating with a compass. They break contact when natural navigating but don't get any farther apart from each other. So for me, the less vis the better, means they have to be more accurate with their navigation.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Our students are independent from me on every dive except the first one. On the first one they kick out to the bus and do a skills checklist then follow me home underwater. They have the AI's above them, one or more per team.
Dives 2-4 are independent buddy navigation, so I see them pretty much when they leave and when they get back, and usually chill somewhere in the middle to see them halfway through. They either have an AI above them, or a boat bumper attached to one of their tanks if we're short AI's. They are in touch contact through the majority of the dive since they are navigating with a compass. They break contact when natural navigating but don't get any farther apart from each other. So for me, the less vis the better, means they have to be more accurate with their navigation.

I am assuming this is for AOW? The dives sound like it.

 

[tbone1004]

negative. Basic Open Water. Our AOW stuff is included in rescue and includes night dives, a deep navigation circuit that is finished with blue water navigation at 10ft, so 30ft above the floor and you can't see it. Use of lift bags for recovery and a bunch of other stuff...

For Basic OW
Dive 1-skills checklist
Dive 2-reciprocal navigation to 4 different stations approximately 25yds from origin, buddy team only
Dive 3-full navigation circuit with diver 1 leading
Dive 4-same nav circuit but backwards with diver 2 leading

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Our students are independent from me on every dive except the first one. On the first one they kick out to the bus and do a skills checklist then follow me home underwater. They have the AI's above them, one or more per team.
Dives 2-4 are independent buddy navigation, so I see them pretty much when they leave and when they get back, and usually chill somewhere in the middle to see them halfway through. They either have an AI above them, or a boat bumper attached to one of their tanks if we're short AI's. They are in touch contact through the majority of the dive since they are navigating with a compass. They break contact when natural navigating but don't get any farther apart from each other. So for me, the less vis the better, means they have to be more accurate with their navigation.

negative. Basic Open Water. Our AOW stuff is included in rescue and includes night dives, a deep navigation circuit that is finished with blue water navigation at 10ft, so 30ft above the floor and you can't see it. Use of lift bags for recovery and a bunch of other stuff...

For Basic OW
Dive 1-skills checklist
Dive 2-reciprocal navigation to 4 different stations approximately 25yds from origin, buddy team only
Dive 3-full navigation circuit with diver 1 leading
Dive 4-same nav circuit but backwards with diver 2 leading

Just curious ...

What agency allows you to send uncertified OW students off on unsupervised dives?

Mine requires them to be under the direct supervision of an instructor or DM whenever they're in the water ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[tbone1004]

NAUI... they're supervised, ish. They are in a quarry, which could by the definitions of "confined water" be considered confined. If they are in a buddy team, they either have an AI directly above them the whole time for all 4 dives, or they have a boat bumper attached to their tanks so they can be watched from the surface. Instructor is always in the water at all times, before they get in and after they get out, and will jump around to all of the buddy teams as necessary. They are diving independently though and that's important because if they only get "follow the leader" in their basic class, they aren't really divers, they can just blow bubbles and do the essentially the same thing my dog could if I put an air helmet on him... That's the philosophy of the program I work with...
They are limited to 40 feet max depth and we can watch them quite easily even from the surface, but 98% of the time they have an AI directly above them to keep them somewhat on course, or at least within their limits.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Interesting. I cannot imagine sending divers with 1 training dive off on their own.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Me neither ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Frosty]

To me the question is at what vis level does it stop being fun/enjoyable?
I know we are talking about a training senario but heck if I was doing my OW in four foot or less vis I'd be saying "wheres the enjoyment in this?"
At the end of the day isn't that as big a part of training as teaching the skills - whetting the appetite for things to come.
That said. --I DO feel that a low vis dive as part of a training package would be a great idea.

 

[tbone1004]

Our vis is usually 15-20 ft and only less if the students decide to flutter kick and have bad trim and make it worse for themselves. You just asked for theoretical worst vis.
I don't think I'd voluntarily take them into a start of less than 5, but they have definitely made it worse than that while they've been there. If you can dive in cold murky water, you can dive just about anywhere, and it only gets better from there...

 

[SnorkelLA]

I'll tell you guys something that'll be hard to beat. Cross Lake in Shreveport, LA. Twelve feet deep I went down as a dare with my friend. Vis was about 1.5ft at most. A big ole alligator was right in front of me and I never knew until he blasted away right in front of me. Vis was so bad my buddy couldn't even see me and I had to tell him what happened on the boat. Definitely never going there again