Bad service and safety in Indonesia...

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The self-promoted pitch is too obvious.
Just came across this new thread on "Probably the Best Diving in the world".
One dive operator(CN Divers) and two liveaboards(Moana and World Wide Dive and Sail's S/Y Indo Siren) were praised !! Pure coincidence?

Centrals i don't see The self-promoted pitch is too obvious nor the connection with Probably the Best Diving in the world.

i do see it on here but i found IyaDiver 2 posts and latest one of interest and his point of views i don't really see a self-promoted pitch SORRY !
 
Centrals,


The World,

Which part of my post is misleading ? May I know.
I like the fact the dive scene is attracting tourist and creating job opportunity for my fellow Indonesian and you are spending 5 weeks here in Indonesia soon, that is nice.:coffee:

If one day you do Ambon, I know a nice submerged reef almost 1.6 m, n.miles long where it is not listed on the chart. The surrounding perimeter slope and drop off is good, the middle part at +-30 feet shows bomb damage. Its approx 85 n.miles north from Ambon Bay, close to Boano Island. I may share the reef coordinate with you. The two dive operators on Ambon Island do not even know this reef exist as it is too far from Ambon city and not in any marine charts.



IYA

@ IyaDiver read my post again i was not saying part of your post was misleading.I was saying agreeing with you that the the original thread "Bad service and safety in Indonesia" was misleading.

That's great you and your friend with your own boats and yes too many divers on a boat is not fun and much better and fun if you know everyone on the boat.
Funny you mention Ambon as i have wanted to do Ambon/Banda for sometime especially Banda and i saw a 13 day liveaboard in FEB 2012 at a reasonable price for me with Untitled Document after 3 emails with no reply i then noticed they have changed their trips which is a great shame.

Safe and HAPPY DIVING ! not long now 2 day's :D :rofl3: :D :rofl3:
 
If you are based in Hong Kong, you should try diving the oil rigs and tell what kind of boats you want to take there. Its about 70 is n.miles south east if the boat leaves from Aberdeen Marina Club. Nice oil rigs. At the right time of the year, lots of pelagic marine life and easy 40 meters viz but 20C thermocline lurking below 20 meters. You need a fast boat to do a day trip to the oil rigs. One will pass these oil rigs when heading to the Pratas Island or when fishing the South or North Vereker Shoal in South China Sea. Am I now promoting Aberdeen Marina Club or any yachts which may be a charter one out there :D
IYA
Shall I remind you that the South China Sea oil rigs are in a restricted area. No one is supposed to dive there!!!!
All the dive boats going there are against the law(Communist China).
BTW, thank you for letting me know which liveaboard to avoid.
 
We would like to send out a warning to everybody who is going to Komodo (Labuan Bajo) to do some diving. We where there July 2011 and had decided to do a live abroad for 4 days (very nice way to dive Komodo) and we find this dive center, DANNY’SSS DIVER (Owner: Daniel Yusuf). Before we went out on our dive trip, we sat down and talked with Daniel for at least 2-3 hours where we asked about PADI certificate, safety, diving experience, boat, gear (we tried out gear as well, looked nice), dive guides etc…everything we could think of just to get the best out of our diving. Daniel seemed really nice at the time of booking and we trusted everything he said…we should have known better! The trip ended in disaster! Daniel promised us and experienced dive master that had excellent knowledge about the Komodo waters and he also promised us good safety on the boat and so on. We didn’t have that at all!
Small things we can complain about: We didn’t have a dive computer at the time, so we got promised that they where going to bring an extra dive computer that we could use during our dives, however, we never got it. We were promise a “safety balloon” while ascending, but this wasn’t used, we got wrong sizes of the BCDs so had to dive with too big ones for first dive (they brought wrong bag), two regulators where leaking, one had a lot of resistant when breathing through it, we tried to get the crew to contact the owner when things started to go wrong (we asked them SO many times during our time at the boat!!), they always said they had bad connection, and should try again later..They never tried!
As it turned out when we were out on the boat, the dive master (Daniels brother from Germany that was in Labuan Bajo on vacation, very CHEAP for Daniel I would presume) had no clue what he was doing! Hardly could do the underwater signs. We felt as the most experienced divers (we are advanced divers with around 60 dives in different types of water, so not rookies, but not experienced enough to handle Komodo waters by ourselves)! He didn’t have a dive master degree, he hadn’t dived more than a few times in the lap of 8 years and also he hadn’t dived the dive sites before (he asked the non-diving captain of the boat how he was going to do the dives). If he had dived the dive sites, it was just once or twice! He also didn’t give us any briefing about the dives and if we asked what we could see in the water, he said fishes!!! First 2 dives he had a hangover and went out of air very quickly so our dive times were really short…
We really should have returned already after the first dive, but it is easy to be after wise…now we feel stupid! We were far out in the water, if we had gone back we had not have time to find another dive center and gone back in the waters as we where short on days. Also we tried to get them to contact the owner so he could send out some other guide, but as we said, their promises were just lies!
As komodo waters are really tuff whit very dangerous currents, we don’t lie when we say the Dive master almost got us killed! The planning of the dives was terrible, e.g. we stayed very deep for a very long time (21-24 m for at least 30 min) and therefore had to go very slow up = Olle went out of air (or because of slow ascent he had zero bar at 5 m safety stop, however could still breath all way to surface), this happened even though we showed how many bar we had all the time and really tried to get him to start go up as we really felt that we where to deep to long! Also we were caught by HEAVY, HEAVY currents during 2 of our dives. Moreover the dive master left us alone in the water during one point while he went up himself.
It ended with that Sofia got decompression sickness. This after third dive of the day and in the water during our dive the dive master showed Olle that the dive computer showed NO DIVE! Wherefore Olle signed that we were going to go up. Before we had come this far we where caught by an awfully powerful current by suprice when going over a cliff (the dive master told us in advance, after we had said we didn’t want to do any difficult dives with him as we didn’t trusted him, that this dive was going to be very easy. This more than anything told us that he didn’t know the waters at all!!). In this current Sofia where thrown up higher than us, to shallow water very fast. After giving the dive master a hard time at the surface Sofia started to feel strange feelings in her leg. Neither the dive master nor any from the crew had any idea what to do, and they didn’t know about decompression sickness. The boat had no safety as oxygen or anything! Luckily the decompression sickness was mild (but not less scary), Sofia never felt any pain, just sensations as needles pinches, numbness and crawling in the leg wherefore we didn’t know it was decompression sickness or not.
When getting back in Labuan Bajo, we went around among the other dive centers for getting some advice and to ask if it really could be decompression sickness, as it turned out to be. They said also that Sofia should have got oxygen immediately and also should be going to decompression chamber.
We wanted to talk to Daniel, the owner himself to tell him how disappointed we were at him to put us in this situation and ask him why he had done what he had done, also we didn’t want to pay them all the money for the trip. First we talked with Daniel on the phone and as soon we mentioned that we weren’t going to pay him all the money he went crazy, starting to scream and threat us and told us we never was to leave Labuan Bajo if he didn’t get his money. Sofia, told him that we wanted to talk with him in person at his dive center. Once we got to the center Daniel had collected a bunch of men (around 7 of them), he was really offensive, mostly towards Sofia, threatened us really bad and said he was going to have all money, that we couldn’t treat him like this as he had SO much power in that city, and if we didn’t pay we would never leave Labuan Bajo. He went so far that he hit Sofia in the face!! And should have kept hitting for sure if not Olle and another guy had stopped him! We rushed out of there and after getting advice from the hotel we were staying at we went to the police. Of course Daniel was already at the police station chatting and laughing alone with the police and the moment he saw us (both of us where really thorn down at this moment and cried quite intensely) he acted as nothing had happened, talked very friendly and asked why we were so sad!! Awful man!! Of course the police were on Daniels and the dive centers side as they where locals and seem to be friends with the owner. As we were really scared about what could happen to us if we didn’t paid we had to do what the owner demanded.

We actually believe that Daniel himself is a really good diver and that we would have had a totally different experience if we had dive with him and not the dive master he set us up with. But as it is know, he has a responsibility and should know better than to let thinks like this happen! We hope that people read this and really think before you go diving with this center. We really don’t think you should support this kind of centers! As we walked around to different dive center after this had happen, we promise you that there is so many other, much better dive centers in Labuan Bajo, that are much more secure and still in the same price range (Danny’sss wasn’t cheap, so this is not the reason we choose this place)! Choose one of these instead…

Last we would like to thanks the dive centers in Labuan Bajo that listened to our story and helped us during this hard time and we would also like to thanks Gardena Hotel for their support!
Thanks for reading our story!
Take care
Sofia and Olle
 
S&O--Welcome to ScubaBoard, sorry it had to be via such a strange tale of woe. You'll probably hear some noise about a first time poster knocking a dive operation and maybe even hear from folks who have had no problems with this dive op. It is pretty standard, don't sweat it. A reminder that you are the one responsible for your own dive safety could probably also be tossed in but of course, it's good advice. Having your own computer, your own regs that you can trust etc. may also be brought up, as might the "two sides to every story" remark.

However, you are the ones who know what you went through and it certainly doesn't sound safe or pleasant. On the plus side you now access ScubaBoard. Certainly there is a wealth of information here and great ways to help avoid future dive trip problems. Lot's of lessons learned I bet, thanks for the post and again, welcome! :eyebrow: // ww
 
Phew...now it looks less I am "assassinating" someone....Thanks to others for the support.

I have been reading this with some amusement - lots of...um...."strong discussion" here.

Many of you are very experienced divers - that's great! It's always good to hear from those with plenty of dives. But don't overlook the fact that many newer divers less experience and wisdom. While 50 dives might seem like someone has dived in several places - that could just be a month in Australia or Thailand or Honduras without really ever understanding the needs of equipment maintenance or brands of compressors. I think many, many divers still assume that there are set standards for the industry and that when walking into a shop they don't need to inspect the equipment or check the credentials of the guide being sent out.

We can open a whole large discussion about how people are certified and what they are taught...but that wasn't the point.

Sofia and Olle posted their comments on another forum...and now posted them here. They had a pretty unusual experience and are certainly putting it out there in public.

They had a very strange and terrible experience by their accounts. I think it was a reckless choice to put an inexperienced DM with divers in Komodo (or anywhere with significant currents and hazards). I find the lack of safety standards appalling (lack of Oxygen, radio or procedures) and it can not be overlooked that they were in some form of altercation with the owner. If he did strike her...then it is totally insane. In having the local police side with the owner is a very disheartening experience.

I would like to ask Sofie & Olle - now that you are here...What could have been done differently? What is your intention in posting your experience?
 
Hmm Why would this SofiaSol come on here with a cut and paste of the original link from another forum from the link provided by Similandiver, who I believe has a best intentions for alerting divers who may consider diving with Danny'sss. However perhaps jumping to conclusions without even witnesssing what happened.

Yes a quick search on the internet provides some very simlilar posts by the original poster trying to spread the same message on a few other forums. Granted no one else here was present - theres always two sides to the story. No real evidence apart from the word of this Sofia person. No rebuttal from management at Danny'ss for their side of the story. Inexperience on behalf of Olle and Sofia - going to an advanced dive site was a wrong step to begin with.

Somehow a quick search and I found no other complaints about Danny'sss operation. In fact this review below was a contrary one. So should everyone just jump on the bandwagon - even the misleading title of bad service and safety in Indonesia? Hence lumping in the big no-no of generalisations about the whole dive industry and all the other reputable dive ops out there?

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/indonesia/380556-trip-report-padangbai-gili-komodo-live-board.html

Andy you make some good points mate however not everyone is like you or think as you do. Most vacation divers are not going to be led by measure of 'common sense'. Im perplexed at how some even pass the course with their knowledge (or severe lack of) given that it can be a life and death issue. On my last 2 dive travels I encountered a couple of recently certified vacation divers who did not use a computer or depth gauge. When asked about this they simply claimed not to need it! They werent even aware that ascending too quick could be dangerous - or that depth correlated with reduced air in the tank. One of them did not perform safety stops.

Yes both these divers are ultimately responsible for their own dive planning, equipment etc etc. However if they were not given the right education in the first place it would have been a different story perhaps. Because when I asked one of them about the computer issue and safety stop they just did not know anything about it! I also mentioned this to the owners/managers of the dive operators I had dived with whether they were aware or concerned about inexperienced divers not habing a computer or depth gauge - they simply replied with the same - as long as they stick to the DMS and dont go deeper then them its all fine. Id hate to know what would happen if they were separated.

So yes since dive operators have a liability release statement - anyone who signs this effectively absolves the diver operator from being responsible for the diver. Should they be? Hell YES. Does this happen? Not quite near enough I reckon.

Should new or vacation divers be responsible for themselves? Hell YES. Does this happen? Not quite near enough from what I have seen.

With regards to Sofia there was a question put forward 2 months ago and there has been no reply since...

Well if you are reading this Sofia - I heard you had a case DCI - were you DAN insured? Did you get it treated, which chamber and how did you go? Would love to hear that you are alright.
 
[QUOTE=gee On my last 2 dive travels I encountered a couple of recently certified vacation divers who did not use a computer or depth gauge. When asked about this they simply claimed not to need it! They werent even aware that ascending too quick could be dangerous - or that depth correlated with reduced air in the tank. One of them did not perform safety stops.

Just when i thought i had heard it all SHOCKING !!!!!!!!!
 
I just found this thread and wanted to chime in...
Of course, this is a horrific experience if it's entirely true (usually there a two sides but I wasn't there, so I cannot argue for one or the other side). I am sorry that you had such a bad experience.

Besides, I did a three days safari and an additional one day dive trip to Komodo with Danny'SSS in mid 2010 and thought it might be a good idea to share my experience with them.
We were four divers on the trip and met with Danny on his boat. Before signing up to a Safari we met on his boat to talk about diving in Komodo, the boat, the guides and stuff like that. He seemed to be a nice guy so we decided to book the daytrip and agreed on a date and time (we stayed on an island called Seraya so we needed a pick up from Danny there). Danny and his crew showed up on time and we did our two dives daytrip. Because everything went fine, we booked the three days Safari afterwards that we enjoyed very much.
Some notes
- our guide was Danny himself. He seems to be very knowledgeable about the dive conditions, currents and stuff like that. Briefings were thorough and included a hand drawn map of the specific dive site. As a guide I can recommend him very much based on my experience with him. Still, I did not rely on him for safety purposes (air and NDL monitoring etc) as this is my job as a diver IMO.
- we were only 4 people on the boat plus 6-7 staff members. I felt very priviledged to dive in a group that small as other boats that were not significantly larger had 8-12 divers onboard.
- My buddy and I brought our gear to Komodo but the other two divers rented theirs from Danny. The rent equipment wasn't the newest stuff on the planet but seemed adequate and safe.
- All dives were 25 meters max with only mild currents as Danny spent quite some time to plan the dive trip in accordance to swell and tide schedules which worked out nicely for us
- at the end of the third dive of each day, you had to monitor NDL a little closer as we were getting closer to no deco limits
- Danny and the crew were very nice. We always had a good chat and laughter onboard and the food was surprisingly good
- just to add: My buddy and I are moderately experienced divers at 170+ dives back then; the other buddy team had about 60+ dives each.

In all, we had 4 very nice days of diving with Danny and I can only recommend a dive trip to Komodo as I find the dive spots to spectacular. I cannot say anything bad about Danny'SSS dive operation, in fact I found them professional and fun. Needless to say, the exprience you are describing here is outrages but I wanted to balance it a bit with my positive experience.
 
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