Bad News From Santa Rosa Blue Hole

[John C. Ratliff]

Please read what I posted to BDSC. Yes, speculation is allowed. But so little is known here, and some will be unknowable, that speculation could be hurtful to the family. That is my concern. Any ideas on my question concerning CCR use?

SeaRat

 

[chillyinCanada]

... perhaps he saw something that made him believe his buddy needed his assistance ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Thanks, that's exactly my thinking. If a buddy diver deviates from the plan to remain outside of a restriction but enters anyway . . .there just can't be too many other reasons from my perspective.

If Shane was actually panicking, then we can only assume everyone would/will at the moment of truth.

 

[Brad_Horn]

Do any of you CCR users ever practice removing the CCR underwater to get through an obstruction? If so, tell us the hazards of doing so, and whether it could be accomplished in limited visibility. Note: this does not pertain directly to this particular accident.

Yeah, John that has been done before: fair bit of info about it. Find a report on the hazard from one occurrence
- Meg Fatality - NCDivers.com
- The Deco Stop
- Welcome to fyvie.net
- Mar10-2008 - IUCRR

 

[boulderjohn]

Speaking in the most general terms and not specific to this incident, I am quite certain that ANYONE will panic when the situation is dire enough.

It is nice to think that we have such perfect control of our minds that it will not happen to us, but we cannot tell what we will do in such a situation until we are in it. More importantly, panic is NOT simply controlled mentally. It is a natural bodily reaction to a build up of carbon dioxide in the system. If you are exerting yourself in a bad situation and/or not breathing (especially exhaling) properly in such a situation, panic will build in your system as the CO2 does.

 

[Phil_C]

Speaking in the most general terms and not specific to this incident, I am quite certain that ANYONE will panic when the situation is dire enough.

It is nice to think that we have such perfect control of our minds that it will not happen to us, but we cannot tell what we will do in such a situation until we are in it. More importantly, panic is NOT simply controlled mentally. It is a natural bodily reaction to a build up of carbon dioxide in the system. If you are exerting yourself in a bad situation and/or not breathing (especially exhaling) properly in such a situation, panic will build in your system as the CO2 does.

All too true John - when the body starts to react at it basic instinctual level the fight or flight instinct to survive and breathe cuts in, normally nobody just lays down and dies except in the movies, apart from when the body has become numbed by cold or anaesthetised via other outside influences. - Phil

P

 

[redacted]

Speaking in the most general terms and not specific to this incident, I am quite certain that ANYONE will panic when the situation is dire enough.
.

I am not at all sure that is correct. Using this definition of panic (sudden uncontrollable fear or anxiety, often causing wildly unthinking behavior), I am sure that some are very prone to panic. But I do not see the actions of the diver in this case as indicative of panic as opposed to his controlled, rational response to the situation.

 

[John C. Ratliff]

What one observation of panic in a CCR diver could have actually been convulsions from CO2 buildup. An ex-Navy diver is unlikely to "panic." Observations are difficult in limited visibility.

SeaRat

 

[KevinNM]

What one observation of panic in a CCR diver could have actually been convulsions from CO2 buildup. An ex-Navy diver is unlikely to "panic." Observations are difficult in limited visibility.

Or 02 toxicity. Or could have been panic. Or something else. The incident of the two Finnish divers who died in Plura in February 2014 is what keeps coming to mind. In both cases you have highly qualified and experienced divers with what appeared to be a fully functioning CCR who experience a significant problem (but not an immediately life-threatening problem - because they are on a CCR with hours of remaining run time which which to solve the problem) occur and then in a short period of time they stop breathing.

 

[Dsix36]

Agreed, but here is how that kind of discussion should go. Do any of you CCR users ever practice removing the CCR underwater to get through an obstruction? If so, tell us the hazards of doing so, and whether it could be accomplished in limited visibility.

SeaRat

Note: this does not pertain directly to this particular accident.

This thread has my attention due to the fact that I tend to find a lot of tight holes to crawl into while wreck and cave diving. I am no stranger to zero visibility and am not prone to panic when I get stuck, which I have done on a number of occasions. I try to learn as much as possible in these threads but not be intrusive or chest thumping either. I will say that I have had to remove my rebreather in zero vis to get loose and it can be done safely. I had never practiced this other than in training and I certainly was not stuck in a cave when I did.

I really hope that those involved will make a statement in the future when they have had time to compose after their ordeal. I can see myself in the same position and prefer to control the outcome differently.

 

[Tjack]

More info here.....

Expert diver dies in Blue Hole caverns in New Mexico