Bad Ending to Otherwise Good Bonaire Trip

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While it seems useless to add a single addittional comment to an issue where everyone has manned the barricades on their preferred side of the equation, it still baffles me how little background is added to a such a serious issue. Fact: there is an unacceptable level of crime on Bonaire. Fact: everybody knows that and it must change. Fact: the authorities know it as well and want to change it. Another fact: it is so much harder to change it than it seems.

It takes a bit of background so bear with me. More than five years ago Bonaire's electorate voted
to disband the country they are part of. They no longer wished to be part of such a disfunctional country, the Neth. Antilles. I would hope that anyone can grasp the depth of drama that lies at the source of such a vote, but a start might be to imagine that if say massachussets wishes to separate from the US because of bad government, rampant crime, economic hardship, insufficient health care, crappy education, outdated infrastructure, poverty lurking at the horizon etc. etc., never mind environmental problems, basically without hope of improvement. The result of that referendum, which was held simultaneously on the other islands was similar on the other islands with the exception of Statia.

The next five years were spend to solve the result of the peoples vote, but altough close, hasn't materialized yet. What we have now though is a government that has detoriated even further, especially the central and bankrupt government in Curacao, having to cease to exist sometime soon. And there is really no effort to function properly as the politicians are juggling for their own (profitable) position after the various transitions.

Specifically on the crime issue this means there are simply no effective means to combat this pest. Police and justice are directed by the central government (and not Bonaire), dominated by Curacao, which will separate from Bonaire according to the results of the referendum. They simply have no interest to direct efforts to help Bonaire here. As both the central and the Bonairean governments are bankrupt, there is no money to mount a substantial and effective police force. There is no money to build jails to house the perps, and with the disfunctional government to change the laws, we as citizens are stuck with ancient laws, that rather protect the perps than the victims. Considering the above, I must actually complement the police force for what they are accomplishing with such little means. They do a decent job and I have been in the 'fortunate' position to witness that often. On the the other hand I have literally chased thiefs with a baseball bat, thus breaking the law myself. However it was accepted by frustrated but goodwilling cops, who witnessed me doing that on at least one occasion. Guests of mine throwing rocks at thieves to get them out of the shrubs, and thus did the same, basically making me and my guests perps ourselves

What would make the picture even more bleak is the long term. The schools are in such bad shape, with such an instrumental lack of everything, there would have been little hope to a proper education, reducing chances in life. I am in the 'fortunate' position of having to direct my children through the existing situation for now. A sick but true example of how bad it is: The private sector provides for twohundred breakfasts daily to hungry school going children............

That is just the government part, now the more simple private sector part. It is no problem to turn our properties in good looking bunkers a la Jamaica's all inclusives, but most would resist that, and I certainly would. I will not stay at a bunker, no matter how well dressed up. There is however, no denying that properties have responsibility to take.

One of the problems of crime on Bonaire is that, quite uniquely (sp?), visitors of Bonaire are out. They move about freely much more so than elsewhere in the Caribbean, making them soft targets all over. It is hard to protect a constantly migrating crowd, and who leave their property alone rented or owned, parked unattended for hours at a time, while diving, kayaking, or whatever. The situation is a magnet for perps. There is however no denying that owners have a responsibility to take also........

Now as for the sniping on this topic: There is an unacceptable level of crime on Bonaire, not just for visitors, but for residents as well. Simple truth. A victim is a victim and not the one at fault, the perp is. Simple truth. Saying that a victim should be more careful, might be true in some cases, but saying so is offensive and painfull, what is the point? What is also true is that the crime problem will not be solved on this board. Calling for a boycott or whatever will not solve the crime problem. Simple truth. If you feel the safety situation on Bonaire is not acceptable, please stay away, there are hundreds of incredible dive destinations around the world to choose from. Choose freely. I for one call Bonaire home, I raise my kids here, I am allowed to live a good life here. And I am working on finding a way to reduce the problem, rather than bitch about it. Criticism is good, criticism without depth just silly yelping.........

And now there is hope to achieve that on relative short notice. Bonaire will become an integral part of Holland, with the means to seriously improve the above, in fact all of the above, as is signed for, and should be implemented by 10-10-10 with results showing shortly thereafter.
And then, my friends, there will be something other to complain about, such as price, or taxes, or what an arrogant staffer you have met ;), or who had the idiocy to post........

Thanks for taking the time to post. It's refreshing to actually hear some insightful information for once. I'm a bit baffled how there are other people on here who own property on Bonaire and you're the first one to post as if they pay attention to what is going on, on the island, the rest must either not want to post the truth of the matter or for whatever reason are totally un-aware of it.

I hope things do make a change for the better toward the end of the year, or you will end up like Jamaica. I've seen many posts that indicate there is a lot of reactive measures being taken by owners there to the crime. The current answer seems to be one of the owner having to take matters into their own hands to provide security which will only lead to more and more security measures and more and more of a Jamaican experience.

Good luck and thanks again for posting some truth, it's refreshing and important for everyone planning on visiting Bonaire to understand the crime issue and that some unusual measures must be taken to avoid a possible bad experience.
 
Did you not read the post right above yours by diverbart? :confused:

My Lord, the guy lives there and is explaining to us that Bonaire does indeed have a bad issue with crime right now and you're still in denial?????
Obviously, you have no idea that my reference has nothing to do with diverbart's posting. It has to do with you claiming
... now they are ridiculously defending room invasions.
and me calling you on this, and requesting you show one (1) ANY ONE POST defending room invasions.

But, it was a heck of a good try to misstate, misunderstand, miscommunicate and attempt to twist my last post to suit your agenda.

Now, back to my question for you to simply show me 1 post "defending room invasions..." If you can't show me one, the other 49 points you built on this foundation are moot based on your own claims in this thread and others.
 
Thanks for taking the time to post. It's refreshing to actually hear some insightful information for once. I'm a bit baffled how there are other people on here who own property on Bonaire and you're the first one to post as if they pay attention to what is going on, on the island...
He's not the first. But, he is the first you haven't discounted. If you read the first 10 posts of this thread, you would see that.

I hope things do make a change for the better toward the end of the year, or you will end up like Jamaica. I've seen many posts that indicate there is a lot of reactive measures being taken by owners there to the crime. The current answer seems to be one of the owner having to take matters into their own hands to provide security which...
Is among the solutions posted by PiFi...

Good luck and thanks again for posting some truth, it's refreshing and important for everyone planning on visiting Bonaire to understand the crime issue and that some unusual measures must be taken to avoid a possible bad experience.
If his post gets you and PiFi on the right track, then yes... It was an excellent post (even if it doesn't get that response it was an excellent post... as many posts from people who live or own businesses on Bonaire have also been, but have been discounted for the fact they live there or own a business there)
 
Now, back to my question for you to simply show me 1 post "defending room invasions..." If you can't show me one, the other 49 points you built on this foundation are moot based on your own claims in this thread and others.

If you search through the past posts that have to do with crime in Bonaire you will find what you are looking for. There will be posts in regard to room safety, there will be posts in regard to how to make yourself safe in a room in Bonaire, there will be posts consisting of people saying that these safety measures are common sense and there will be posts saying these common sense safety measure are no different then what is expected anywhere in the world where you travel and there will be posts saying it's your own fault if you travel and don't take common sense safety measures.

Now go do some of the work yourself.

As usual you need to relax and stop worrying about somebodies agenda, you simply are not even remotely important enough to be on my radar to have an agenda for you. :shakehead:
 
If you search through the past posts that have to do with crime in Bonaire you will find what you are looking for.
Nope! I ask you for a single post. Not for me to search through but for you to prove your point...

ONE SINGLE POST "defending room invasions". Just one to prove your point... A single solitary post (that wasn't immediately jumped on by this same group you continue to claim is "defending room invasions"). You have made the statement without proof... I claim you do not have such proof and are making things up to suit you...

PROVE ME WRONG!

There will be posts in regard to room safety...
First-hand experience and passing on tips to lesson one's chance of being a victim is NOT "defending room invasions"
... there will be posts in regard to how to make yourself safe in a room in Bonaire...
First-hand experience and passing on proven tips on how to lesson one's chance of becoming a victim of crime is NOT "defending room invasions"
... there will be posts consisting of people saying that these safety measures are common sense
Do you lock your doors at home? Do you have a security system? Do you lock your car doors at the local mall or when you will be away from your car? Are these measures that will lesson your chance of becoming a victim of crime in your area? Do you NOT believe them to be common sense?

... and there will be posts saying these common sense safety measure are no different then what is expected anywhere in the world where you travel
You've got me there. I absolutely agree with this statement with small exceptions for particular areas of travel local to the destination

... and there will be posts saying it's your own fault if you travel and don't take common sense safety measures.
Show me ONE post saying "it's your own fault if you travel and don't take common sense safety measures". I ask you again, do you lock your car doors at the local mall?

Now go do some of the work yourself.
MY work is DONE. I called you on a false statement and asked you to provide one (1) ONE post to quantify it. Not two, not three, not a bunch... ONE. If they are so prevalent it should be a simple task for you to be taken seriously. Now, you go do your work.

As usual you need to relax and stop worrying about somebodies agenda
I am not worried about your agenda. it is clear what that agenda is to many who post and many who read these threads...

Some of us understand there is a need to post clear and straightforward information concerning crime on Bonaire. Others need to create a mountain out of a mole hill (as stated in another thread by Cave Diver)

... you simply are not even remotely important enough to be on my radar to have an agenda for you. :shakehead:
Nor do I believe you have an agenda for me... and I also wouldn't have a worry if you did.
 
I was gone all day. Nice holiday with the family. Boy did I miss out.
 
I was gone all day. Nice holiday with the family. Boy did I miss out.
Not really Don... Other than diverbart's excellent post...

The majority of posts have been asking mfinley919 and PiFi a single question for proof of their accusations "to show a single, or any post" to support their accusations that others are trying to "white wash" or "spread pixie dust" or "defend room invasions" or "paint an unrealistic picture" of crime on Bonaire. The avoidance of both to show ANY single post, or provide ANY post is common for both... pretty boring stuff, considering a single post of proof for their accusations has been asked for on other threads and has NEVER been given... :shakehead:

Watch how this is twisted, turned, snaked arranged to try and put it on me to show the other. I have only offered a realistic view, and my posts in this thread from last year (on May 19th if anyone wants to look them up in this thread) show the straightforward attempt to acknowledge there is crime on Bonaire, and then give personal experience... Just like many of the other posters concerning Bonaire on a number of Bonaire threads...

You, yourself have been invited at a huge discount to visit Bonaire on this very thread, in order to judge for yourself and you have not taken Liz up on this fantastic offer!
 
Last edited:
DiverBart..Thanks for your excellent posting to put the issue in it's proper perspective from someone on the island year round. Kudos for your posting. For others who do not live on island, much of this info and current progress towards solutions and integration can be found by reading the Bonaire reporter..Welcome to The Bonaire Reporter. I'd recommend some folks read it to bring them up to speed as to what's currently going on

Unfortunately I'm not optimistic that your posting will "change any minds" as there are those on this board who I venture to guess will continue their smear campaign (for whatever their personal reasons) against Bonaire. Let us remember there are thousands upon thousands of folks that visit Bonaire annually, have wonderful vacations and are planning to return. I know because I deal with them every week. A few (for a variety of reasons) have unfortunate experiences and post about them on the internet. Others then derive a sense of satisfaction about beating the issue to death under the guise of being "concerned for all and a liberator of the truth", to hide their main agenda. And, that's the way I see it. As you have succinctly stated, "If you feel the safety situation on Bonaire is not acceptable, please stay away, there are hundreds of incredible dive destinations around the world to choose from. " Personally, I for one plan to be back to Bonaire many many times in the future.
 
Show me anywhere in this thread where someone has told the OP or anyone else it is their fault for being robbed...

  • I have read posts saying things like, "That's why I don't take anything of value to a dive that I am not going to dive with"
  • I have read posts saying things like, "That's why I keep my valuables locked up or hidden until I leave"
  • etc.
Pointing out one's own personal experience of how one avoids being a victim of crime is NOT "telling them it was their fault"

Pointing out ways to avoid being a victim of crime is NOT "telling them it was their fault".

Stop being so lazy and do your own search. This and other threads ,concerning crime on Bonaire, are replete with the phrases, use common sense and you won't be a victim, leaving stuff out is asking for trouble ,etc. You forget that you CAN leave stuff out to dry in other places and not get them stollen.:shakehead:






While it seems useless to add a single addittional comment to an issue where everyone has manned the barricades on their preferred side of the equation, it still baffles me how little background is added to a such a serious issue. Fact: there is an unacceptable level of crime on Bonaire. Fact: everybody knows that and it must change. Fact: the authorities know it as well and want to change it. Another fact: it is so much harder to change it than it seems.

It takes a bit of background so bear with me. More than five years ago Bonaire's electorate voted
to disband the country they are part of. They no longer wished to be part of such a disfunctional country, the Neth. Antilles. I would hope that anyone can grasp the depth of drama that lies at the source of such a vote, but a start might be to imagine that if say massachussets wishes to separate from the US because of bad government, rampant crime, economic hardship, insufficient health care, crappy education, outdated infrastructure, poverty lurking at the horizon etc. etc., never mind environmental problems, basically without hope of improvement. The result of that referendum, which was held simultaneously on the other islands was similar on the other islands with the exception of Statia.

The next five years were spend to solve the result of the peoples vote, but altough close, hasn't materialized yet. What we have now though is a government that has detoriated even further, especially the central and bankrupt government in Curacao, having to cease to exist sometime soon. And there is really no effort to function properly as the politicians are juggling for their own (profitable) position after the various transitions.

Specifically on the crime issue this means there are simply no effective means to combat this pest. Police and justice are directed by the central government (and not Bonaire), dominated by Curacao, which will separate from Bonaire according to the results of the referendum. They simply have no interest to direct efforts to help Bonaire here. As both the central and the Bonairean governments are bankrupt, there is no money to mount a substantial and effective police force. There is no money to build jails to house the perps, and with the disfunctional government to change the laws, we as citizens are stuck with ancient laws, that rather protect the perps than the victims. Considering the above, I must actually complement the police force for what they are accomplishing with such little means. They do a decent job and I have been in the 'fortunate' position to witness that often. On the the other hand I have literally chased thiefs with a baseball bat, thus breaking the law myself. However it was accepted by frustrated but goodwilling cops, who witnessed me doing that on at least one occasion. Guests of mine throwing rocks at thieves to get them out of the shrubs, and thus did the same, basically making me and my guests perps ourselves

What would make the picture even more bleak is the long term. The schools are in such bad shape, with such an instrumental lack of everything, there would have been little hope to a proper education, reducing chances in life. I am in the 'fortunate' position of having to direct my children through the existing situation for now. A sick but true example of how bad it is: The private sector provides for twohundred breakfasts daily to hungry school going children............

That is just the government part, now the more simple private sector part. It is no problem to turn our properties in good looking bunkers a la Jamaica's all inclusives, but most would resist that, and I certainly would. I will not stay at a bunker, no matter how well dressed up. There is however, no denying that properties have responsibility to take.

One of the problems of crime on Bonaire is that, quite uniquely (sp?), visitors of Bonaire are out. They move about freely much more so than elsewhere in the Caribbean, making them soft targets all over. It is hard to protect a constantly migrating crowd, and who leave their property alone rented or owned, parked unattended for hours at a time, while diving, kayaking, or whatever. The situation is a magnet for perps. There is however no denying that owners have a responsibility to take also........

Now as for the sniping on this topic: There is an unacceptable level of crime on Bonaire, not just for visitors, but for residents as well. Simple truth. A victim is a victim and not the one at fault, the perp is. Simple truth. Saying that a victim should be more careful, might be true in some cases, but saying so is offensive and painfull, what is the point? What is also true is that the crime problem will not be solved on this board. Calling for a boycott or whatever will not solve the crime problem. Simple truth. If you feel the safety situation on Bonaire is not acceptable, please stay away, there are hundreds of incredible dive destinations around the world to choose from. Choose freely. I for one call Bonaire home, I raise my kids here, I am allowed to live a good life here. And I am working on finding a way to reduce the problem, rather than bitch about it. Criticism is good, criticism without depth just silly yelping.........

And now there is hope to achieve that on relative short notice. Bonaire will become an integral part of Holland, with the means to seriously improve the above, in fact all of the above, as is signed for, and should be implemented by 10-10-10 with results showing shortly thereafter.
And then, my friends, there will be something other to complain about, such as price, or taxes, or what an arrogant staffer you have met ;), or who had the idiocy to post........

Thank you for your honest and accurate post. I'm hoping it will educate cool tech and diver vince, although I doubt it. As some of us have noted, things are not changing on Bonaire, but now you give hope that it will soon, or should soon. At least NOW we have some idea of WHY it is as bad as it is.




diverbart,
Thank you very much for your first-hand experience and insight into the situations!

I certainly hope it will not be discounted by some here who seem to think people who live on Bonaire or have a business on Bonaire "are only giving as much 'truth' as needed to keep people coming to their business"

The information you provide is insight and intelligent without whining or accusation.

I, for one would like to meet you on our next visit to Bonaire in June 2010.

Thanks,
Jim

Yes, it is insightful and intelligent . I just hope you really understand it and see how it makes the case some of us have been trying to educate you on.:shakehead: Reading it is one thing, YOU understanding it is another.



Did you not read the post right above yours by diverbart? :confused:

My Lord, the guy lives there and is explaining to us that Bonaire does indeed have a bad issue with crime right now and you're still in denial?????

There are none so blind. Perhaps cooltech still does not get it , or even comprehend what divebart said?


Obviously, you have no idea that my reference has nothing to do with diverbart's posting. It has to do with you claiming and me calling you on this, and requesting you show one (1) ANY ONE POST defending room invasions.

But, it was a heck of a good try to misstate, misunderstand, miscommunicate and attempt to twist my last post to suit your agenda.

Now, back to my question for you to simply show me 1 post "defending room invasions..." If you can't show me one, the other 49 points you built on this foundation are moot based on your own claims in this thread and others.

What do you call people saying, well you shouldn't have left things out in your room? If you had put them in the safe yada yada. Maybe you can also tell us how to defend against having the damn safe ripped out of the wall? How do you defend against that?




He's not the first. But, he is the first you haven't discounted. If you read the first 10 posts of this thread, you would see that.

Is among the solutions posted by PiFi...

If his post gets you and PiFi on the right track, then yes... It was an excellent post (even if it doesn't get that response it was an excellent post... as many posts from people who live or own businesses on Bonaire have also been, but have been discounted for the fact they live there or own a business there)

Uh, no, we hope his post wakens you, helps you see what many of us already see. That post confirms what we've been saying. Please go back and reread it:shakehead:



If you search through the past posts that have to do with crime in Bonaire you will find what you are looking for. There will be posts in regard to room safety, there will be posts in regard to how to make yourself safe in a room in Bonaire, there will be posts consisting of people saying that these safety measures are common sense and there will be posts saying these common sense safety measure are no different then what is expected anywhere in the world where you travel and there will be posts saying it's your own fault if you travel and don't take common sense safety measures.

Now go do some of the work yourself.

As usual you need to relax and stop worrying about somebodies agenda, you simply are not even remotely important enough to be on my radar to have an agenda for you. :shakehead:

He's lazy. He's also misinterpreting some things:shakehead: If anyone has an agenda here it's posters like cool tech





Not really Don... Other than diverbart's excellent post...

The majority of posts have been asking mfinley919 and PiFi a single question for proof of their accusations "to show a single, or any post" to support their accusations that others are trying to "white wash" or "spread pixie dust" or "defend room invasions" or "paint an unrealistic picture" of crime on Bonaire. The avoidance of both to show ANY single post, or provide ANY post is common for both... pretty boring stuff, considering a single post of proof for their accusations has been asked for on other threads and has NEVER been given... :shakehead:

Watch how this is twisted, turned, snaked arranged to try and put it on me to show the other. I have only offered a realistic view, and my posts in this thread from last year (on May 19th if anyone wants to look them up in this thread) show the straightforward attempt to acknowledge there is crime on Bonaire, and then give personal experience... Just like many of the other posters concerning Bonaire on a number of Bonaire threads...

You, yourself have been invited at a huge discount to visit Bonaire on this very thread, in order to judge for yourself and you have not taken Liz up on this fantastic offer!

Any twisting done here has been by you. You also still don't get it, even though divebarts post was very very clear:shakehead:

DiverBart..Thanks for your excellent posting to put the issue in it's proper perspective from someone on the island year round. Kudos for your posting. For others who do not live on island, much of this info and current progress towards solutions and integration can be found by reading the Bonaire reporter..Welcome to The Bonaire Reporter. I'd recommend some folks read it to bring them up to speed as to what's currently going on

Unfortunately I'm not optimistic that your posting will "change any minds" as there are those on this board who I venture to guess will continue their smear campaign (for whatever their personal reasons) against Bonaire. Let us remember there are thousands upon thousands of folks that visit Bonaire annually, have wonderful vacations and are planning to return. I know because I deal with them every week. A few (for a variety of reasons) have unfortunate experiences and post about them on the internet. Others then derive a sense of satisfaction about beating the issue to death under the guise of being "concerned for all and a liberator of the truth", to hide their main agenda. And, that's the way I see it. As you have succinctly stated, "If you feel the safety situation on Bonaire is not acceptable, please stay away, there are hundreds of incredible dive destinations around the world to choose from. " Personally, I for one plan to be back to Bonaire many many times in the future.

Actuallly, DV, there was some hope it would change your mind, help you better understand WHY things are so bad, and HOW things can get better. DV, be part of the solution, not a white washer.
 
Asked and avoided through 50 posts now... It's really that difficult to show a single post of someone "defending room invasions". How sad it is to be the boys who continue to cry WOLF! WOLF! WOLF! :shakehead:
 

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