Backplate, wings, etc. vs knighthawk

[menc44]

A few more questions:

waynne fowler: Why would you not recommend the regs and computer for what I may be doing down the road? What should I look into?

ScubaKimmie: Why do you say the MK25 should not be used in cold water? Cold water is about all we have here in New England and three shops I have been to and my instructors all reccommend and use it up here, any reasons that I am unaware of?

And everyone else please keep posting your opinions, I am very interested!!!

 

[LadyScuba]

I have been diving a ScubaPro LadyHawk (female version of KnightHawk) with Air2 since 2003 and love it. It is extremely comfortable and easy to adjust. For the past few months I have been borrowing a friend's OMS BP&W to try it out and just switched to a Halcyon BP with single tank wing. I do not get it to go Tek because I have no plans to get into Tek diving. I got it for how well streamlined and adaptable it is. And it was an excuse to get a new scuba toy. I did not like the OMS because it had a lot of drag and was a horseshoe bladder.

The KnightHawk is set up similar to a BP&W setup in that it has a hard plastic backplate with a hard plastic tank adaptor bolted to it with the back inflate bladder in between. The bladder is excellent for balance because it is an oval, not a horseshoe. The oval versus horseshoe bladder are available for both traditional and BP systems. I prefer the oval because it is self-balancing. The KnightHawk is actually more streamlined than many of the BP&W set ups out there so be cautious and become very informed when making such a big gear and financial decision. Some shops rent both types so you can try them out before purchasing…or do what I did, borrow from a friend.

I will NOT get rid of my LadyHawk because it is still in excellent condition with nearly 100 dives on it and it will serve well as a back-up BC as well as a loaner (it is currently loaned out). I also will be using it when I go through my DM training soon because BP&W setups are highly discouraged, and often not allowed, during Rescue, DM and Instructor training.

If you are planning on staying purely recreational, the KnightHawk is an excellent choice and will serve you well. You can always upgrade later and a have a backup so you will never need to be out of the water. If you plan to go Tek, get a BP&W but do a lot of research because there are huge differences between manufacturers and models.

PS, the weights are not difficult to release on the KnightHawk, they just take more than simply pulling a cord because they involve a clip. My buddies had no difficulty releasing my weights during OW and Rescue. My new Halcyon also has clips to remove the weights. Please keep in mind that the “simple” weight release systems typically have Velcro that will eventually wear out or have rip cords that will release all of the ditchable weight at one time (I am a cold water diver so that is a scary thought – different situation in warm water with less lead).

PSS, a BP&W setup does NOT require hauling around a weight belt unless that is how you choose to set it up. They have integrated weight systems that attach to the waist/belt portion of the harness.

 

[PerroneFord]

If you are planning on staying purely recreational, the KnightHawk is an excellent choice and will serve you well. You can always upgrade later and a have a backup so you will never need to be out of the water. If you plan to go Tek, get a BP&W but do a lot of research because there are huge differences between manufacturers and models.

I still don't understand where the idea comes from that BP/W are tech gear only. My FAVORITE BP/W setup is my Halcyon Pioneer 30. When I wear it with a single tank, I feel like I'm wearing nothing in the water. It literally just disappears. No hoses in the way, doesn't move, I can't feel it.

As for there being huge difference between manufacturers, I'd say there's a LOT less difference than there is in the more common wrap-around BC styles. I mean, look at the thing. It has only 3 parts. A metal plate, some 2" webbing with D-rings, and a bladder on the back. The bladders come in different sizes if you want but it takes about 3 minutes to change them out. The plates come aluminum or stainless steel, and sometimes a type of plastic. The webbing is about $1 a foot and you need about 14 feet to make a complete system. That's it. You could probably fit 4 of them in a brown grocery bag.

As for the Air2, probably won't be useful later on down the road for technical work. Mk25 is not a sealed first stage and might give freeflow issues in cold water. Not that it's a bad reg, its one of the best. Just not for cold water. I don't know anything about the smartcom computer. Never heard of it actually.

 

[menc44]

Anyone have any recommendations on a cold water reg? I thought scubapro made decent ones for cold water, I also like there warranty.

 

[PerroneFord]

I think the ScubaPro Mk17 (new model) is a cold water reg. We have some real ScubaPro gurus here so hopefully they will chime in. You'll hear recommendations for Apeks, which seems to be the regulator du jour for cold water diving. You'll hear others (Posieden, Aqua Lung, etc.)

 

[Codyjp]

Great question as I have the Mk25 & S600 (and It works great for me), but haven't yet taken the plunge on a BC. I was eying the Knighthawk, but 1/3 of the boat last Wednesday was using the Backplate (including my Buddy) set up.

The BP has straps going everywhere and does require dragging a weight belt around.
The Nighthawk is pricey and the weights are "difficult" to release in an emergency.

Not to split the question, but is there another BC option we should be looking at if we do got the standard BC set up??

hey now man, let me trim off the extra staps first! then there won't be so many straps all over.

The customizable option is a bit more expensive. but in the long run i think it will be a good solution.

check out Deep Sea Supply for everything.

 

[David P]

Yes the SP MK 17 is a diaphram style regulator vs the piston style Mk 25 is is better suited for extreme colds. I believe the MK 25 is the highest flowing regulator on the market. Their Mk 17 isn't very far behind on the numbers! I have had my Mk 25 in the hi 40s and no problems. However, was in my pool @ 51 degrees and decided to purge some air from my tank.(just purchased the Mk 25 and had to play) wow that puppy flows!!!! A few seconds later I released the purge button, but it kept flowing, and flowing, and flowing. I quickly swam to the shallow end and stood up. I reached back and touched the first stage only to feel a giant ice block. The first stage froze solid! In only a couple of seconds it pretty much drained my 119 PST! Moral of the story is do not purge a butt load of air at depth in cold water with a SP Mk25.

Regarding the Air 2, I don't care for them. The buttons are very hard to push and honestly, I think they're a crappy design. Those regs take so many specialized tools to rebuild it aint funny! If you really like the idea of one less hose and want an Air 2 style backup, look at the Atomic SS1. The fit and finish is much nicer than the Scuba Pro, the buttons are easier to push, and they come in colors (dont forget about the titanium...)
Back plate: Ditto on everything everyone said. I prefer simple backplate $125, basic harness $25 with 2" crotch strap (I was very leary of ...discomfort, big waste of stress, totally cumfy) and a wing ~$300 I have a Dive Rite Rec wich is ~51lbs of lift.(depends where you read the specs...) I recently found out that this is enough lift to hold up my pair of steel 120s with all the little doo dads in fresh water so its more than enough for the sea. This makes me think I can get away with a smaller, more streamlined BC for when I dive my single tank (always except for my pool for now)

weights. lug around a weight belt, lug around weight pockets, or lug around loose weights that will cram into your optional quick release weight pockets. Personally I choose a weight belt. When Im humping all my gear to the dive boat, I can either throw the belt over a sholder, or just wear it like a belt. MOST dive bags are not designed to carry weight in them. So no matter what you choose, you gotta lug the lead anyway. Oh yeah a nice XS Scuba multi pocket weight belt costs a HELLUVA lot less then the optional quick release weight pockets for a backplate.

 

[LadyScuba]

My comment about big differences with BP&W setups pertains mostly to the wings and somewhat to the weight systems. I have found there is a big difference with the drag on various wings.

As I said, I'm not Tek and never plan on it but I still went backplate. It is so comfortable. I totally agree with your comment about feeling it disappear in the water. I have the Halcyon Eclipse 40 with the SS BP and 6# TA for cold water and the STA for warm water. I loved it the first time in the water. I am fortunate to have buddies who dive Halcyon BPs and were able to get me 95% fitted correctly before ever entering the water.

 

[djanni]

How about a suggestion. For me it came down to choosing between the Knighthawk and the Zeagle Stiletto. I dive both and finally choose the Stiletto.

Both of these are terriffic BC's. They totally dissappear underwater. You'll forget you are wearing a BC. They are stable which will help you with air consumption and trim. Except for the most minumalist configuration of a bp/w they are almost as streamlined as most jacket style BC's. Even the minimalist bp/w will not streamline like some of the jacket style bc's will. That's because of the wing and applies to the back inflate as well.

Anyway, food for thought.

 

[PerroneFord]

Even the minimalist bp/w will not streamline like some of the jacket style bc's will. That's because of the wing and applies to the back inflate as well.

I'm not going to disagree... I just want to see a picture. of it. If I had my single tank rig on, and I was standing in front of you, you'd see two straps, my regulator hose, and a light going under my arm. You'd not even know I had a wing on or a tank behind me. So this BC must be DARN small.