Back Roll Entry Head Injury

[jplflyer]

Let me share my ignorance. I am not very experienced -- less than 50 dives. I understand the need for everyone to stick together, and I understand how they are trying to do it. But it seems like there's a better way that's been alluded two once or twice.

Why not have people enter the water in a fairly controlled manner (one or two at a time) and then have them hang onto a trailing line until everyone is in the water? Everyone can get in, do a last-last equipment checkup, fix anything that needs fixing, and then all descend together.

This seems obvious. There must be a reason it's not SOP.

 

[djcheburashka]

This is ridiculous... The responsibility for this is 99% with the diver and 1% with the boat, and that only for allowing the diver to go in the first place.

1 - that the diver's "hat" and mask kept coming off on the entry demonstrates a significant misconfiguration issue that the diver was allowing to persist, apparently (from the tone of the post) because he didn't know to fix it.

2 - the diver shouldn't have been on the surface to be hit anyway. A back entry is a negative bouyancy entry and recovery and normalization should be at around 10'. Staying on the surface, or surfacing after the entry, poses a risk to other divers and to the diver himself.

3 - this has nothing to do with diver size. I am not large and I'm no olympian athlete. I've done back entries in singles, doubles, doubles with stages, sidemount, with and without a scooter. I've gone with divers as short as 5'1" on back entry dives.

4 - there isn't a need for some kind of more formalized, more controlled entry system. A back entry is *not* a difficult diving skill. It's a standard taught, basic, entry level skill. People either know how to do a back entry or they don't. If the OP had done his back entry properly then the accident wouldn't have occurred. We don't need DM's and boat captains standing over and watching every second of the dive -- that would be annoying, demeaning, detract from the dive, and be unproductive since the DM can't watch everybody at once anyway and if they're paying attention to this then they're not watching some other diver get into trouble.

5 - DM's and boats do not "ensure safety." DMs and boats have particular responsibilities, like making sure divers don't get chopped up by the propeller and leading the dive.

6 - unless there are *very* significant waves, someone who is physically fit enough to be diving at all should not need help staying on the edge of the boat, at least in a single tank. It is not physically hard.

 

[boulderjohn]

Why not have people enter the water in a fairly controlled manner (one or two at a time) and then have them hang onto a trailing line until everyone is in the water? Everyone can get in, do a last-last equipment checkup, fix anything that needs fixing, and then all descend together.

This seems obvious. There must be a reason it's not SOP.

That's because it should not be necessary. This is honestly the first time I have ever heard of an incident like this. There is normally no reason to make it any more complicated than flopping into the water.

2 - the diver shouldn't have been on the surface to be hit anyway. A back entry is a negative bouyancy entry and recovery and normalization should be at around 10'. Staying on the surface, or surfacing after the entry, poses a risk to other divers and to the diver himself.

While I prefer a negative entry myself, the boat crew makes the decision. Most of the times in my experience in places like Cozumel it is a positive entry, with the group getting together on the surface and then descending.

 

[djcheburashka]

I suspect what they expect is a negative entry followed by surfacing some distance from the boat. A fully positive entry is going to risk injuring the diver or the gear when they smack the water or the boat. And if the diver did descend a bit and then decided to surface next to the boat - that's just stupid, I'm sorry.

 

[boulderjohn]

I suspect what they expect is a negative entry followed by surfacing some distance from the boat. A fully positive entry is going to risk injuring the diver or the gear when they smack the water or the boat. And if the diver did descend a bit and then decided to surface next to the boat - that's just stupid, I'm sorry.

You "suspect"? Does that mean you don't have any first hand experience with these dives in locations like Cozumel? You do realize that some of the people in this thread have done many back roll entries with a number of different operators there--some have done hundreds. When people tell you they are normally done positively buoyant, they are not guessing. They are reporting what happens. Even with air in the BCD, you will submerge first and then pop to the surface

 

[nimoh]

I suspect what they expect is a negative entry followed by surfacing some distance from the boat. A fully positive entry is going to risk injuring the diver or the gear when they smack the water or the boat. And if the diver did descend a bit and then decided to surface next to the boat - that's just stupid, I'm sorry.

When divers say positive entry, they mean going under and popping back up after a short time. Smacking the surface and staying above it is such a ridiculous thing to do that there isn't even a term for it

You are correct that the OP intended to be some distance from the boat as indicated in the following quote:

"I back-rolled into the water from my position near the front of the boat on the port side which happened to be down-wind. I was holding my hat this time and everything stayed in place. However, I was paying more attention to my hat and mask than my position in the water and did not swim away from the boat. The wind was blowing the boat toward me and blowing the stern in my direction. I quickly was against the boat and 10 feet or more toward the stern from where I entered. "

 

[djcheburashka]

You "suspect"? Does that mean you don't have any first hand experience with these dives in locations like Cozumel? You do realize that some of the people in this thread have done many back roll entries with a number of different operators there--some have done hundreds. When people tell you they are normally done positively buoyant, they are not guessing. They are reporting what happens. Even with air in the BCD, you will submerge first and then pop to the surface

Given that I'm not mentally defective, i think I have a pretty good handle on what happened

The problem in your

---------- Post added June 25th, 2014 at 04:17 PM ----------

Description is the "popping up". That means the diver wasn't in control of his bouyancy. What they are supposed to do is enter and then surface *under* *control*.

 

[boulderjohn]

Given that I'm not mentally defective, i think I have a pretty good handle on what happened

The problem in your

---------- Post added June 25th, 2014 at 04:17 PM ----------

Description is the "popping up". That means the diver wasn't in control of his bouyancy. What they are supposed to do is enter and then surface *under* *control*.

Oh, for crying out loud! A person doing a back roll with air in the BCD will go under water a couple feet at most and then come back to the surface. I takes a little over a second. Are you calling for a slow, controlled ascent from two feet of depth?

 

[old_bald_guy]

Clearly, I need a different head covering that will not come off on back-roll entries.

My screen name explains all you need to know. I always wear a do-rag when diving in tropical waters, not for warmth but to keep the bean from burning while floating on the surface. It always stays on, regardless of the type of entry.

 

[djcheburashka]

If you are even thinking that a slow controlled ascent from 2 feet of depth is what happens on a back entry, then you are doing it completely wrong. Unless your wing is highly positive on the entry, you're going to hit at least 10 feet. That's where you regain control and ascend.

The fact that you were talking about it this way, in terms of only dropping 2 feet and then immediately popping to the surface, says that you do not know the maneuver. Entering like you described creates a nontrivial risk of injury from the boat or other divers.