Back plate BCD vs. jacket style back inflation.

[DevonDiver]

Yes and no. You are assuming that the diver is using an STA. I believe only Halcyon, Light Monkey and DRIS actually require the use of an STA (no slots in the wing). While the rest do not and some have the STA built into the wing.

Not assuming anything, other than what I stated - most manufacturers are consistent in the spacing of holes to assemble BP&W systems. Whether STA is used or not - the holes between backplate - wing - STA can normally be counted upon to line up.

For the record, I've had Halcyon Eclipse, Halcyon Evolve, Oxycheq 18lb, OMS and Custom Divers wings... and used them with Custom Divers, Halcyon, OMS and generic backplates - no problems. When I've used an STA (Halcyon) that's also fitted with all of the above. The Oxycheq doesn't require an STA (but one can still be used, if desired/required)... it still fits all the backplates.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Try them all out if you can, and a model or two of each.

Personally, I'm not fond of jacket style BCD's, but wear one in pool sessions with OW students (I find it easier to handle in pools and easier to explain to OW students when I'm using the same gear they are). The biggest drawback for me is the squeeze when inflating.

For open water sessions, my personal BCD is a ScubaPro Seahawk. I bought one after diving another back inflate, a ScubaPro Knighthawk. I found it much more comfortable in open water environments and easy to maintain trim. The only drawback is that it's more difficult to stay upright on the surface than a jacket style, but if you roll on top of your BCD like an otter, it's quite comfortable.

Then there are BP/W setups. I'm looking into these myself, and have priced them out at about the same price as my back inflate BCD. Yes, they're more modular than an all-in-one BCD, but don't expect them to be a much cheaper option. Between backplate, harness, wing, single tank adapter, crotch strap (some harnesses don't come with one) and ditch-able weight pockets if you need them, it could run you as much or more than a traditional back inflate BCD. However, it does provide modularity down the road.

I anticipate switching over to a BP/W in the future, but until I finish my Divemaster program, I will be sticking with the Seahawk because it is what I know and love.

But of course, your mileage may vary and all that fun stuff.

Actually at over 650.00 for your BC from Leisure Pro a BPW is significantly less.

Wing 230 or so. plate 90.00, harness 60.00, tank bands 40 unless you get used ones for half that. STA may not be needed so no expense there. Right now we are looking at
420.00. Integrated weights are not the best choice for a BPW so add a weight belt for 15 bucks. Far less than the 650.00 I'd say. And if you went used you can get a rig for around 300 bucks that is just as rugged and reliable as your 650.00 BC. And far more versatile and a better fit.

 

[ams511]

Not assuming anything, other than what I stated - most manufacturers are consistent in the spacing of holes to assemble BP&W systems. Whether STA is used or not - the holes between backplate - wing - STA can normally be counted upon to line up.

For the record, I've had Halcyon Eclipse, Halcyon Evolve, Oxycheq 18lb, OMS and Custom Divers wings... and used them with Custom Divers, Halcyon, OMS and generic backplates - no problems. When I've used an STA (Halcyon) that's also fitted with all of the above. The Oxycheq doesn't require an STA (but one can still be used, if desired/required)... it still fits all the backplates.

While you are correct that most plates have 11" centered holes after that they differ on plate bend (which does not affect fit), slot size and spacing (which does) and accessory mounting holes (which doesn't but is frustrating). Some plates are direct copies, for example Salvo and Scubapro plates are so similar to Halcyon that you can mount a cinch on them. I have never seen a Best Divers wing (tried to Google it but got some weird site in Italy) but they may be a copy of some other plate also. For the record, I have plates and wings from: Apeks, DSS, Halcyon, Oxycheq, and Zeagle and plates only from Storm, Abyss, Light Monkey and Hog and a Hollis wing. So my dive locker of single tank wings and backplates is a bit more extensive than yours.

Please see this thread: For this particular wing, Hollis S25, An Abyss, Apeks, or OMS, plate will fit it. However a Storm or Hog would not and a Dive Rite kinda sorta lines up. I didn't check it against a Oxycheq or Zeagle fabric plate, a Halcyon, or a DSS Kydex because the OP wasn't looking at those plates but I could and maybe it would fit and maybe it won't.

It has been a while since I disassembled the Oxycheq wing (Mach 5 not the razor) but from what I remember the slots are very long so the slot spacing in the plate isn't critical. Other wings are not so generous with the slot size and spacing (some like Halcyon has no slots at all), so the spacing on the slots of the plate do matter.

Take these wings:

Look how long the slots are. I would guess any plate would fit them. Now compare them to these:

Notice how the slots are not as long. For wings like this the slot spacing on the plate does matter.

 

[Alzer]

I was at a LDS and that was one of the options that they could switch out in a package that offered the ScubaPro Nighthawk. My buddy has the Zeagle Ranger and He absolutely loves it. He is a larger stature guy but I tried his on and it fits so I'll try that one on for a future dive.
Since I haven't gotten my Open Water Cert yet, I can say that these are some of the specialties that I am looking forward to. Photography/ Video, Cave, Deep, Wreck, Navigation, I'm leary about the night dive, but i'm curious at the same time. We have a quite a few wrecks off of southern cali that are accessible and i'm cant wait to take the next round of classes.

---------- Post added June 15th, 2013 at 02:16 PM ----------

P.S. - if by chance you hear the claim that a back inflate is bad because they push you face forward when on the surface, it is only a "half truth".... Yes, they will, but it is because: (1) weighting is wrong [too much on the front], (2) a tendency to overinflate the bladder, thinking it will sit you higher like it does in a jacket.

In a BP/W or Back Inflate, it is best to pretend to be an otter, and go belly up on the surface. Its quite relaxing, and effective.

So if the BP/W has a tendency to push one forward, Would it help to load your weights closer to the center of the small of you back? or is it just something that you become accustomed to and work around by using the "otter floating method" on the surface?

 

[Doomnova]

I was at a LDS and that was one of the options that they could switch out in a package that offered the ScubaPro Nighthawk. My buddy has the Zeagle Ranger and He absolutely loves it. He is a larger stature guy but I tried his on and it fits so I'll try that one on for a future dive.
Since I haven't gotten my Open Water Cert yet, I can say that these are some of the specialties that I am looking forward to. Photography/ Video, Cave, Deep, Wreck, Navigation, I'm leary about the night dive, but i'm curious at the same time. We have a quite a few wrecks off of southern cali that are accessible and i'm cant wait to take the next round of classes.

---------- Post added June 15th, 2013 at 02:16 PM ----------




So if the BP/W has a tendency to push one forward, Would it help to load your weights closer to the center of the small of you back? or is it just something that you become accustomed to and work around by using the "otter floating method" on the surface?

The easiest thing to do is to inflate the BCD enough to stay comfortably on top of the water. if the BCD starts to push you face first in the water let some air out of it. Once you have used on for a bit you'll quickly get a handle of it without playing with weights that can cause issues when your under the water.

 

[BDSC]

I can say that these are some of the specialties that I am looking forward to. Photography/ Video, Cave, Deep, Wreck, Navigation,

Nothing wrong with taking more classes if that's what you want to do. But other than cave diving, which you definitely should do before getting into that kind of diving, all the other things you have listed you can easily learn without paying for a class. Just don't get caught up in the hype some shops will try and sell you that you need to take the latest and greatest class.

 

[BVickery]

Nothing wrong with taking more classes if that's what you want to do. But other than cave diving, which you definitely should do before getting into that kind of diving, all the other things you have listed you can easily learn without paying for a class. Just don't get caught up in the hype some shops will try and sell you that you need to take the latest and greatest class.

I would add wreck if he plans penetration dives into it. I remember Devon posting a vid about blackouts and such and I know if it was me, I'd freak out and been a fatality (not know proper techniques, gaining confidence in my ability etc).

 

[DevonDiver]

I would add wreck if he plans penetration dives into it.

I think any overhead environment (hard, or virtual) requires dedicated training. The trouble with wreck courses is that (1) they may not be run as overhead environment courses and (2) even if they are, there's no guarantee the instructor will have any expertise in overhead environment diving...

Wreck and cave diving share many factors; including many common risks, comparable protocols, techniques and equipment demands... and very similar diving restrictions at progressive levels of penetration (i.e. cavern/recreational wreck then full cave/technical wreck etc). In fact, the only thing that drastically differs is the level of instructor expertise demanded at the entry level (cavern/wreck diver) - where the cavern instructor must be full cave qualified (and cave instructor for most agencies), wheras the wreck instructor can by any punk zero-to-hero OWSI that self-submits an unverified application to teach... scary.

 

[Instructor_Tom]

I was at a LDS and that was one of the options that they could switch out in a package that offered the ScubaPro Nighthawk. My buddy has the Zeagle Ranger and He absolutely loves it. He is a larger stature guy but I tried his on and it fits so I'll try that one on for a future dive.
Since I haven't gotten my Open Water Cert yet, I can say that these are some of the specialties that I am looking forward to. Photography/ Video, Cave, Deep, Wreck, Navigation, I'm leary about the night dive, but i'm curious at the same time. We have a quite a few wrecks off of southern cali that are accessible and i'm cant wait to take the next round of classes.

---------- Post added June 15th, 2013 at 02:16 PM ----------




So if the BP/W has a tendency to push one forward, Would it help to load your weights closer to the center of the small of you back? or is it just something that you become accustomed to and work around by using the "otter floating method" on the surface?

not sure why people say that a rear inflation BCD cause you to float face down. I have been diving rear inflation my whole diving career and have never had that problem unless I am extremely over weighted. With proper weight trim in on your hips you float just fine.

as for you comment on the Zeagle Ranger. the Ranger is probably one of the finest BCD on the market ( personal option) it can serve a diver all the way up to cavern and can even be used to dive small doubles.

also ditto on what deco diver posted. if you plan to do wreck, cavern, or cave; then do the training with a cave dive instructor. you will learn to dive every dive as if it where an over head environment and to plan your safety into the dive ( redundant regulators, first stage, air, deco gas, line drills, s drills, gas matching, etc....)

be safe and get good training.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[DevonDiver]

While you are correct that most plates have 11" centered holes after that they differ on..., slot size and spacing

The point being, if the holes are consistent amongst brands, then a Single Tank Adapter (STA) allows those brands to be mixed & matched to your heart's content.

The clue is in the name: "adapter".

The benefit of sticking to a single brand, or researching compatible brands, is that the diver may not have to use an adapter (directly thread cam-bands through the backplate and wing). There are benefits for lighter-weight rigging/travel with that option. The benefit to using an STA is 'universal fit', plus the addition of well-trimmed weight that may be needed.

---------- Post added June 16th, 2013 at 10:28 AM ----------

if you plan to do wreck, cavern, or cave; then do the training with a cave dive instructor. you will learn to dive every dive as if it where an over head environment and to plan your safety into the dive ( redundant regulators, first stage, air, deco gas, line drills, s drills, gas matching, etc....)

Cave and 'Technical Wreck' are very similar, so you could expect an instructor in either to provide a very similar skill-set in training. There's probably a lot more cave instructors than technical wreck instructors though (anyone got figures for that?).

Learning wreck diving from a dedicated technical wreck instructor is likely to have more direct relevance, than doing it with a cave instructor. Whilst the skill-set is (should be) near-identical, the severity of different hazards does vary between environments and there are minor differences in applicable technique.

I wouldn't automatically take a cave diver on a technical wreck dive. I wouldn't expect the same in reverse either.

Also, you wouldn't expect a basic 'Wreck Diver' course to introduce a full spectrum of overhead environment skills, equipment and protocols. Training time is too limited for that. Think of the 'Wreck Diver' course as nothing more than a very basic introduction to wreck diving. Developing true competency in wreck penetration demands considerably more training than a recreational specialty course provides. However, (truly) specialist wreck instructors can/do provide incremental training to that effect - with overhead environment protocols clinics, courses, mentoring etc... up to, and beyond, technical wreck certification.