Back Inflation BCs

[ScubaFishee]

So I'm thinking that it's safe to say poorly fit and poorly trimmed out gear is the culprit of this face plant phenomenon.

In my case, I wouldn't say it was poorly fitted gear. My gear fits great. But I guess maybe poorly trimmed out gear might be an appropriate category.

 

[Firefyter]

So I'm thinking that it's safe to say poorly fit and poorly trimmed out gear is the culprit of this face plant phenomenon.

Bingo

 

[wolf eel]

[It seems to me that we're missing the point a little here.]

The reason that a good wing is made to wrap around the tank is because that's where a significant percentage of the weight is expected to be. That means using steel tanks when wearing heavy exposure protection.

Think about it. While al tanks are cheap and light which is great for a rental oporation in the tropics it sure isn't so good to wear a tank that can swing to a couple pounde pos buoyant and have to carry that much more weight on a belt or in pockets.

this is one of the reasons that around here we see so many divers with severe head up trim. all the weight is around their belly so when their suit compresses and they inflate the bc a little their top half gets jacked up and thir bottom gets dragged down. Of course when the same diver wears a back inflate bc, light tank and all that weight on their belly they're pushed forward at the surface. We need the weight and the buoyancy in the same place.

In my case I use a al tank when I dive a single because that's what I have but I use a plate. When I use a wet suit there's also a couple pounds threaded on a tank band to get some of it off my belly and up where I need it...FOR TRIM when the suit compresses. It just so happens that it probably helps at the surface also. You folks are using and complaing that something doesn't work when it isn't designed to work.

On the other hand a near neutral tank, jacket bc and a bunch of weight on your belly feels good at the surface because the tank isn't doing much of anything and the weight is below the bc. it just so happens that it's also why most of you cold water divers who are configured this way are standing up at depth also.

The whole thing is messed up and that's what I meant earlier when I refered to ill conceived bc's.

Weight and balance 101...if the center of gravity and the center of buoyancy are in the same place you can place yourself in and maintain (without work) any position you want either at depth or at the surface. Thats one of the reasons we use steel tanks and plates and we get the trim and stability we want at depth and at the surface.

Is that not what I said with out getting into a science and gravity and all that jazz.

 

[wolf eel]

Yeah, before the adjustment, I could really feel the tug between the wing pulling up and weightbelt pulling down. (Still can a little, but only if I overinflate at the surface. So I don't do that anymore.

Fortunately for me, natural curves at the waistline keep the waiststrap from riding up. Otherwise, I might need a crotch strap.

The light bulb came on for me after I saw photos taken of me and some dive buddies in water at the surface. I'm 5 ft. 2 in. They are both 6 ft. plus. In all the pictures, their wings are mostly underwater, where as the top of mine was near my head.

We all used the same bolt holes, which positioned the bottom of our wings and harness in the same place. But they have longer back-waist measurements and larger harnesses. Mine is x-small and the wing itself is longer than my back waist length.

Any push from theirs would be against the body. The push on mine was strongest against my neck and upper shoulders, the area of least resistance. I had problems with my face being pushed in the water. They didn't.

I just knew I had to get that air cell lower on my body somehow.

Moving the wing down isn't in the manual anywhere. But as they say, necessity is the mother of invention.

Now, if someone will just start making gear sized for the shorter adult... oh well. :05:

I just took a look at the Zeagle and a Sea Quest both can not have their wings moved so with out mods you can not achieve this. So I will still say come on up and leave it the way it is made to be an lets float. No problem. The point is not to mod your BCD till it works. That changes the topic and again how it works. So it is no longer in the same game.

OH mine fits excellent thanks and until I moved weight it did push a bit forward that is a mod all on it's own by all rights. :lightbulb

Cheers
Foaming at the mouth :eyecrazy:

 

[ScubaFishee]

The point is not to mod your BCD till it works. That changes the topic and again how it works. So it is no longer in the same game.

Guess we are playing different games then. My point IS to mod whatever equipment I need until it works for me.

My weight belt didn't come with instructions either to cut the excess strap length off the end, but I did that too... cause it works for me.

My computer didn't have instructions saying "stick a ring through those misc. holes in the pack to mount a clip", but I did... cause it works for me.

Sometimes, so that I don't walk on the bottom, I even hem the bottom of pants that are too long when I buy "off the rack"... 'cause that's what works best for me.

Just because another mfg's BC doesn't have grommet holes to move their wing around, doesn't mean I shouldn't move mine down... if it works for me.

My point in posting was to share what works for me. Who knows, it may work for someone else too. But it's their responsibility to find that out.

Sometimes there are multiple ways to get around problems. The purpose of MY game is to find what works safely and comfortably for me. And the rules of MY game allow me to think...

 

[MikeFerrara]

I just took a look at the Zeagle and a Sea Quest both can not have their wings moved so with out mods you can not achieve this. So I will still say come on up and leave it the way it is made to be an lets float. No problem. The point is not to mod your BCD till it works. That changes the topic and again how it works. So it is no longer in the same game.

OH mine fits excellent thanks and until I moved weight it did push a bit forward that is a mod all on it's own by all rights. :lightbulb

Cheers
Foaming at the mouth :eyecrazy:

That's just the point. In order to dive well you will need to make appropriate adjustments to your equipment.

Some wings even come with multiple mounting holes just for this purpose. Some plates also come with mutliple sets of mounting holes.

Most of the bc's on the market would require extensive modification before they'd be acceptable to dive in. They seem designed for "style" and color to appeal to the fasion concious diver who needs to look good for each tropical vacation. The problem is that the designers just don't seem to know much about diving.

The vast majority of divers we see have trim that's way off. Part of it is because the weight pouches just aren't in the right place and many divers just don't think of putting it any where else.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I just took a look at the Zeagle and a Sea Quest both can not have their wings moved so with out mods you can not achieve this. :

Overall I think Zeagle is a fine company but there is a bunch of problems with their bc's. I finally gave up trying to make them work and switched to a simple harness and plate.

 

[xSandman3]

I'm looking into buying an SeaQuest Balance BC. Two questions: 1) having never used a back inflation BC, what should I do to compensate for this when I'm on the surface, and 2) What comments do you have regarding the performance of this BC. I've been told that the way to compensate is by putting weights on the back pockets; however, the weights can not be dumped in the event of an emergency. Someone also mentioned that the danger with a back inflation vest is that the diver can drown if unconscious when you are on the surface since the BC tends to rock you forward putting your face under the water. Any advise on what to do to get used to/compensate for these characteristics? Thank you very much for your comments/advise!

To actually answer your question, The Balance is a great BC, and you won't go wrong buying it. I was worried about the face-plant at the surface and everything else, but realized right away it was a bunch of nonsense perpetuated by people who have never actually used a back-inflate bc. The only negative thing I have to say about the Balance is the one pocket it has sucks. My wife dives the Libra (same bc for women), and she has the same problem I do. If you unzip that pocket underwater, it is next to impossible to zip it back up without help from your buddy. It's a minor thing, however, and I'd buy a Balance again even knowing that about it.

 

[Jason B]

Most of the bc's on the market would require extensive modification before they'd be acceptable to dive in. They seem designed for "style" and color to appeal to the fasion concious diver who needs to look good for each tropical vacation. The problem is that the designers just don't seem to know much about diving.

I think any diver who can't dive with an off the shelf BC has issues anyways. Kinda like the photographer that can't get good composition with a cheap camera or the guitar player that can't play a chord on anything other than a Paul Reed Smith. A good photographer can take a good photo regardless of the equipment used. Same can be said about a guitarist...and a diver. "I can't get good bouancy control because this BC has some color on it." What a sell out. What about when divers didn't even wear BC's? How did they do it without a BP/wing set-up? They must have sucked!

All the equipment bashing is a bit ridiculous don't you think?

 

[MikeFerrara]

I'll try to answer your questions.

I think any diver who can't dive with an off the shelf BC has issues anyways.

There's diving and there's diving. I hear lots of divers saying they like this bc or that set up but so many of the divers I see are in this terrible head up attitude in the water silting everything up. I guess any one who can dive can do that good or better in any off the shelf equipment. No problem but is that what we're after?

Kinda like the photographer that can't get good composition with a cheap camera or the guitar player that can't play a chord on anything other than a Paul Reed Smith. A good photographer can take a good photo regardless of the equipment used. Same can be said about a guitarist...and a diver. "I can't get good bouancy control because this BC has some color on it." What a sell out.

That's great if all you want to do is play A CHORD or dive with lousy trim. BTW one can get configured for decent trim with about any bc. It's just a lot more work with some.

What about when divers didn't even wear BC's? How did they do it without a BP/wing set-up? They must have sucked!

Great question. By todays standards as a matter of fact they did suck. When they stopped swimming they were forced to light down on the bottom. That was a real problem (and dangerous) in caves so divers started fashioning their own using things like milk jugs on strings in the beginning.

In fact diving is still taught much the same today minus the physical training. Students are still taught how to "dive" while on their knees and rarely made to understand or demonstrate good technique. Just like the bc hadn't been invented yet. For this, any bc (or no bc) on the planet will work. Any fins (or no fins) will work.

All the equipment bashing is a bit ridiculous don't you think?

No, I don't think so because so much of the equipment for sale is designed to appeal to the divers sense of fashion and tast for gimicks rather than being designed as a good diving tool. I honestly don't think most of it would sell if divers were taught balance and trim in the beginning. It's when they progress and really want to dive well that their first set of gear often ends up in a corner or on ebay because it just doesn't do the job very well.

You can certainly spend your money on and use what you please but when we discuss equipment we may as well discuss equipment. No? I, for one, spent a ton of money buying equipment that either wasn't any good or that I never needed in the first place. My opinions on equipment cost me alot of money and time...and almost my (or some one elses) life on a couple of occasions. Why shouldn'e we try to help some one else avoid all that trouble?