Attitudes Toward DIR Divers

[Celt]

t can be said that those who choose not to dive with people who smoke or have a different style of gear or diving protocols than you can simply be seen as people who are choosing their friends who they want to dive a lot together with using those metrics to select those buddies.

So is it a social decision and nothing to do with a person’s ability to dive,

 

[The Chairman]

But I was lucky enough that the other diver in the team would have helped me out exactly how I would expect. With someone without similar training, I would have had alot more butthole pucker.

I've also had small issues, that I dealt with. I never start a dive I can't complete by myself, even were big issues to crop up. Pre-prepping and keeping your gear tight does a lot to keep buttholes from puckering.

but I also think you’re an idiot for smoking and ask you not to smoke near me.

This deserves a hearty amen! I never smoked tobacco, and am allergic to all smoke. I will attend a campfire, but won't light it or allow the smoke to get to me in any way.

 

[boulderjohn]

Hell, I had an instructor report me to my training agency for teaching my students neutrally. He didn't like that they didn't kneel to clear their mask, etc, etc

I bet lots of ScubaBoard readers have similar beliefs, following the guidance they got here.

Long time SB members may remember the raging debate related to this after PADI published our article on teaching students while they are neutrally buoyant in 2011. Andy Davis (DevonDiver) raged against it, devoting untold thousands of words warning PADI instructors that if they actually did what PADI published in their professional journal, PADI would expel them. I wrote to PADI headquarters, and they responded with a clear and explicit statement saying that there were no standards violations for teaching students that way. When I posted that, Andy replied that the representative of PADI headquarters who wrote that perfectly clear statement was just giving his personal opinion, and he was wrong. In fact, any statement from anyone at PADI headquarters that disagreed with him, including the President and CEO, was wrong. Only he could correctly interpret PADI rules.

There are people in all walks of life who so desperately want to believe something is true that they simply will not accept anything that contradicts their firmly held beliefs.

 

[The Chairman]

I bet lots of ScubaBoard readers have similar beliefs, following the guidance they got here.

I disagree, for every unreasonable Devondiver, there are dozens of people here to learn. They can tell the FIGJAMs from reasonable people. ScubaBoard is -not- the problem, though many like to be as unreasonable about us as Devondiver was about PADI.

 

[boulderjohn]

I disagree, for every unreasonable Devondiver, there are dozens of people here to learn. They can tell the FIGJAMs from reasonable people. ScubaBoard is -not- the problem, though many like to be as unreasonable about us as Devondiver was about PADI.

We are not disagreeing. I think lots of people learn lots of good stuff here. I also think some are led astray, especially by people with the incredible energy Andy showed. I am sure he convinced a lot of people--he had people like BCDC and beanojones fully supporting him throughout. What he absolutely did was break down his opposition. The people from SB who had worked with me to create the article took him on at first, but as he went on and on and on and on, they dropped out one by one. None of them have been on ScubaBoard for many years now.

 

[rddvet]

So is it a social decision and nothing to do with a person’s ability to dive,

I can't speak for others, but I guess it can be both. I have happily done dives with people of all skill levels and of differing training agencies. I have GUE training, but the majority of my training isn't GUE. I came late to the GUE party after feeling there were some holes in my training I wanted filled and GUE training filled those.
I just want to dive with people I know I'll enjoy diving with who also won't kill me if a minor problem arises. I don't really care who you're training is with. At the same time, I do have to keep how others dive in my mind when I dive with people who don't share the same philosophies as mine. I have dove with people who think team diving is stupid and everyone should be fully self-sufficient. I still dove with that person many times, but I would not do the same dives I would do with other friends who would handle emergencies how I would expect them to be handled based on my training and experience.
I can understand why people have a dislike for DIR/GUE divers due to alot of the big personalities from the past. I think most of that is truly in the past. The majority of people I know with dir/gue training will dive with people of differing training and skill levels just like I will and I think that is more the norm nowadays. At the same time, in places like Florida there are alot of community activities for GUE/DIR divers to meet each other and it can be easy to only dive with other divers from that community.
There are ways of diving that are clearly antiquated, proven unsafe, or are just completely stupid. I won't dive with someone who I think is so antiquated in their thinking that it would increase the risks of the dive significantly. I don't see anything wrong with that because at the end of the day it's really about the enjoyment of diving, not being worried about what if something goes sideways.

 

[rddvet]

I've also had small issues, that I dealt with. I never start a dive I can't complete by myself, even were big issues to crop up.

I don't disagree with that philosophy. I always keep what if the rare chance I'm separated from my buddy in my mind when I'm planning a dive.. At the same time, a quality team shouldn't be undersold. Eventhough I like to think I can save my own ass if I had to, it's nice to know the people I am diving with can instantaneously help me if I become incapacitated for some reason.

 

[Allen-1]

We are not disagreeing. I think lots of people learn lots of good stuff here. I also think some are led astray, especially by people with the incredible energy Andy showed. I am sure he convinced a lot of people--he had people like BCDC and beanojones fully supporting him throughout. What he absolutely did was break down his opposition. The people from SB who had worked with me to create the article took him on at first, but as he went on and on and on and on, they dropped out one by one. None of them have been on ScubaBoard for many years now.

You know there’s an “ignore” button, right? Life’s too short to waste it arguing with people on the internet.

 

[boulderjohn]

You know there’s an “ignore” button, right? Life’s too short to waste it arguing with people on the internet.

The problem is that you are surrendering the field to an opponent on an issue you feel is important.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

The problem is that you are surrendering the field to an opponent on an issue you feel is important.

Like it makes any bit of difference.