Attitudes Toward DIR Divers

[The Chairman]

I’m pretty sure what ever he’s diving is Hogarthain. It’s only tangential to DIR. I’ve seen him in the water a few times and parking lots in cave country. He’s definitely fast.

And still diving at that. How old is Hogarth now?

 

[Nemrod]

Hogarthian is an equipment philosophy/arrangement that has been adopted by many divers and in modified form by DIR advocates. Hogarthian drives Minimalism and while it could be pointed out that none of my rigs are actually Hog, they are Hog inspired and minimal for single tank open water. I do thank all who over the years inspired me to eschew jackets, retractors, all manner of fittings and hose adapters and the usual dive store paraphernalia. To the extent that DIR also advocates (Hog) minimalism, I thank them also. Now whenever I see a diver kitted out with all manner of weird contraptions, I break out in an anxiety attack, thanks a lot Hog/DIR/GUE, whoever . Oh wait, it is happy hour, he has five right angle adapters on his HP hoses and two transmitters and a spg and one way check valves on his regulators, ahhh, I care not not because I have a BAM (Big Axx Maragaritta)!

 

[boulderjohn]

Hogarthian system!
Even the man himself does not use it!

I’m pretty sure what ever he’s diving is Hogarthain. It’s only tangential to DIR. I’ve seen him in the water a few times and parking lots in cave country. He’s definitely fast.

Bill Main was never DIR. The Hogarthian system advocated for inflation off the left post, which as I understand was moved to the right post when GI3 took over, much to the chagrin of Main and a few others. We have a lot to thank Bill Main for, but he was never DIR, and frankly seemed to dislike the term.

Dan Volker's explanation a few years back (before he was banned) was that while Bill Main was very much a part of the development of DIR at WKPP, the problem with him was that he refused to standardize. He was always tinkering, always looking for a way to make things better. George very much believed that everyone needed to be doing everything the same, and so he wanted the current setup and processes standardized. Bill wouldn't do that.

I was part of a dive trip 13 years ago in which one very much DIR diver was talking about that very thing. He told how he had recently argued with Bill about the importance of standardization, and Bill just blew that idea off. He felt the things he was doing that were not DIR were improvements, and he saw no real benefit to requiring everyone to do exactly the same thing.

 

[eightytwenty]

And still diving at that. How old is Hogarth now?

73 as I understand it.

 

[eightytwenty]

Dan Volker's explanation a few years back (before he was banned) was that while Bill Main was very much a part of the development of DIR at WKPP, the problem with him was that he refused to standardize. He was always tinkering, always looking for a way to make things better. George very much believed that everyone needed to be doing everything the same, and so he wanted the current setup and processes standardized. Bill wouldn't do that.

I was part of a dive trip 13 years ago in which one very much DIR diver was talking about that very thing. He told how he had recently argued with Bill about the importance of standardization, and Bill just blew that idea off. He felt the things he was doing that were not DIR were improvements, and he saw no real benefit to requiring everyone to do exactly the same thing.

He certainly laid the framework for what we see today, but as Hogarth himself said:

"I was glad that they changed the name to DIR because there are some differences that I still don’t agree with, like having the wing inflate on the right post. I always have mine on the left"

 

[The Chairman]

He certainly laid the framework for what we see today, but as Hogarth himself said:

"I was glad that they changed the name to DIR because there are some differences that I still don’t agree with, like having the wing inflate on the right post. I always have mine on the left"

Yah, Bill likes to constantly futz with his gear. Me too. That's anathema to Die Hard DIR acolytes. For me, Hogarthian, and modified Hogarthian means minimalist that works for you. No need to over-accessorize and don't do danglies.

 

[Kendall Raine]

Apropos the wing inflate (right v left post) issue, I think it's important to contextualize. Dry suits are standard DIR dress code. Bill dives wet. He says he prefers that because wet is more streamlined and faster to swim (this is to me is a better/bigger example of the Main/DIR divergence). If diving dry on air/32, the drysuit inflate comes off the left. Having the wing inflate also on the left would put all your inflate eggs in one basket (post)-hence the right post. The left post is more vulnerable to break off in the closed position which, if the inflate were on the left, would take out both the SPG and the inflator (another egg in one basket example-sure one can still orally inflate). Bill's argument for the left wing inflate is a non-functioning inflator would be an early warning of a roll off (better than a non-moving SPG). Just from a logic perspective I (as a logic, not DIR, acolyte) lean to the inflator on the right post here (lesser of two weavils) because inducing a left post roll off means slithering though a restriction. Even then it's hard to do and situational awareness would require a check of the valves (the best early warning) to be sure they are both still there/open post restriction. For what it's worth, personal observation is that most of the backmount doubles world (DIR or otherwise) runs the wing inflate off the right wet or dry. In any event, slithering is best done side mount, anyway.

Lastly, at the time of Bill's departure there was a lot more going on in WKPP (e.g. fatalities) than just the question of gear standardization.

 

[eightytwenty]

Apropos the wing inflate (right v left post) issue, I think it's important to contextualize. Dry suits are standard DIR dress code. Bill dives wet. He says he prefers that because wet is more streamlined and faster to swim (this is to me is a better/bigger example of the Main/DIR divergence). If diving dry on air/32, the drysuit inflate comes off the left. Having the wing inflate also on the left would put all your inflate eggs in one basket (post)-hence the right post. The left post is more vulnerable to break off in the closed position which, if the inflate were on the left, would take out both the SPG and the inflator (another egg in one basket example-sure one can still orally inflate). Bill's argument for the left wing inflate is a non-functioning inflator would be an early warning of a roll off (better than a non-moving SPG). Just from a logic perspective I (as a logic, not DIR, acolyte) lean to the inflator on the right post here (lesser of two weavils) because inducing a left post roll off means slithering though a restriction. Even then it's hard to do and situational awareness would require a check of the valves (the best early warning) to be sure they are both still there/open post restriction. For what it's worth, personal observation is that most of the backmount doubles world (DIR or otherwise) runs the wing inflate off the right wet or dry. In any event, slithering is best done side mount, anyway.

Lastly, at the time of Bill's departure there was a lot more going on in WKPP (e.g. fatalities) than just the question of gear standardization.

Another reason Irvine used right post inflation was because if there was a roll-off break-off scenario, the K inflator can be used as a regulator if both buttons are pressed. If the left post does go, you can still feasibly donate the long hose.

 

[flymolo]

Apropos the wing inflate (right v left post) issue, I think it's important to contextualize. Dry suits are standard DIR dress code. Bill dives wet. He says he prefers that because wet is more streamlined and faster to swim (this is to me is a better/bigger example of the Main/DIR divergence). If diving dry on air/32, the drysuit inflate comes off the left. Having the wing inflate also on the left would put all your inflate eggs in one basket (post)-hence the right post. The left post is more vulnerable to break off in the closed position which, if the inflate were on the left, would take out both the SPG and the inflator (another egg in one basket example-sure one can still orally inflate). Bill's argument for the left wing inflate is a non-functioning inflator would be an early warning of a roll off (better than a non-moving SPG). Just from a logic perspective I (as a logic, not DIR, acolyte) lean to the inflator on the right post here (lesser of two weavils) because inducing a left post roll off means slithering though a restriction. Even then it's hard to do and situational awareness would require a check of the valves (the best early warning) to be sure they are both still there/open post restriction. For what it's worth, personal observation is that most of the backmount doubles world (DIR or otherwise) runs the wing inflate off the right wet or dry. In any event, slithering is best done side mount, anyway.

Lastly, at the time of Bill's departure there was a lot more going on in WKPP (e.g. fatalities) than just the question of gear standardization.

also if you run your wing inflate off the right post, in a situation where your inflator sticks on you can use your left hand to dump gas from the wing opv while simultaneously closing the right post with your right hand

 

[Barefoot_Lawyer]

also if you run your wing inflate off the right post, in a situation where your inflator sticks on you can use your left hand to dump gas from the wing opv while simultaneously closing the right post with your right hand

As a new entrant into the GUE family, I just like that people a lot smarter than me, with a lot more diving experience than me, came up with a standardized configuration. It makes it a lot easier from a bubble check all the way to an emergency shutdown to know exactly what things should look like and what should be functioning / what functionality has been lost.