attaching hoses, can I do this or LDS?

[fishb0y]

oh, no no... on the contrary ... i am quite the capitalist

in fact, i am hoping to tell the LDS's how to make MORE money by being forward-thinking ... and catering to their customers better...

Wow... and you consulting firm is?

i definetely support great dive shops .... they just happen to be about 2 hours away from me ...

it's funny... you guys have been saying this since LeisurePro opened its doors
six years ago, and I *still* have never had to get an airfill online.

i have saved a bundle on gear, though...

Are you trying to save money, or are you looking for good service after the fact... honestly, you can't have both.

If you are complaining about LDSs that have poor buisness practices, then that is one thing, but if you are grouping all LDS into one group, I highly disagree.

There is no way a LDS can compete with prices from LiesurePro (mostly grey market goods). As evident from the original post, most divers do not have the know how to do simple maintence on their gear. Don't try to punish the LDS because sites like LiesurePro have poor customer service.

 

[H2Andy]

yeah, you're telling me stuff i know

but you're not listening to what i am bringing to the table

open your eyes ... or better yet, re-read my posts. i don't think i can
explain it any better.

 

[JRScuba]

it's funny... you guys have been saying this since LeisurePro opened its doors
six years ago, and I *still* have never had to get an airfill online.

:.

Wow, this is your lucky day.

Online Air fills : http://www.diveriteexpress.com/gas/etherfill.shtml

 

[fishb0y]

yeah, you're telling me stuff i know

but you're not listening to what i am bringing to the table

open your eyes ... or better yet, re-read my posts. i don't think i can
explain it any better.

And vice-versa... I just don't think that a LDS owner needs to jump through the type of hoops that you want them too... You can't have your cake (Internet pricing) and eat it too (LDS convenience).

 

[GreenDiverDown]

Customer buys drysuit on ebay. Takes it to shop 1, his LDS of several years. Owner tells him it's crap and that the material is rotten. Won't send it back to the manufacturer for a leak test. Says manufacturer won't touch it... period. Suggests that he buy a new suit from him.

Customer goes to shop 2 down the road. Shop 2 sees that the suit is fine and offers to leak check it. Finds leak. Repairs it. Doesn't charge.

Delighted customer continues to do all of his business with shop 1!

True story. Similar stories not all that infrequent. People are funny!

Even though you THINK that doing free work makes for a loyal customer and brings money to the shop down the road, more often it just doesn't. What it does do frequently is build a customer that always is expecting free this and that, a customer that haggles you over every deal, a customer that still goes where ever they can pinch a penny or two. Frankly, this is a customer that many shops would just rather not have. I know that some of you think that a shop should want EVERY customer that walks thru the door. The truth of the matter is they don't... and for good reason. When I hear some folks whine about how they can't find a good LDS, I sometimes wonder whether or not they are one of those people. (I don't mean to suggest that you are one... I know that there are some bad LDSs out there, too)

A shop can do freebies... that's their perogative. But a shop should also put a value to their time... otherwise it's worthless.

I've been on your side of the fence, Andy... and I swore that doing this or that for the customer would benefit us in the long run. My buddies would laugh and say, just watch. More often than not I was wrong. I certainly don't claim to have all the answers but I have seen this stuff from the inside for many years. I know you THINK you have all the answers but you might see things differently if you spent some time in the trenches and actually got some experience with this. Otherwise, your advice will be weighted accordingly.

BTW, our shop does extremely well. We treat customers like we would want to be treated. It seems to work.

I've said my piece... you can have the last word.

Respectfully,

Stephen

 

[fishb0y]

Customer buys drysuit on ebay. Takes it to shop 1, his LDS of several years. Owner tells him it's crap and that the material is rotten.

That might have been the one I sold!

Even though you THINK that doing free work makes for a loyal customer and brings money to the shop down the road, more often it just doesn't. What it does do frequently is build a customer that always is expecting free this and that, a customer that haggles you over every deal, a customer that still goes where ever they can pinch a penny or two. Frankly, this is a customer that many shops would just rather not have. I know that some of you think that a shop should want EVERY customer that walks thru the door. The truth of the matter is they don't... and for good reason. When I hear some folks whine about how they can't find a good LDS, I sometimes wonder whether or not they are one of those people. (I don't mean to suggest that you are one... I know that there are some bad LDSs out there, too)

Exactly... I find that if I am loyal to a shop, the loyalty comes back to me. I agree that there are plenty of bad shops put there (OC), but you need to put your loyalty somewhere. The shop that I frequent now used to make me upset every time I left, now I feel bad if I have to pick up something somewhere else (I'm picky on my masks and anti-fog).

 

[AlexMDiver]

Shop 1: Hey Andy, good to see ya again. What do ya have there? Sure I can put them on but it is something that every diver should learn to do. Besides, it's simple... takes two minutes. Here let me show you how. What's that? You got it at LP? You know I can't guarantee that this baby is 100%. Carefull... not so tight. It's probably fine but I just can't say for sure without going thru it completely. We're not a service center for that brand but if you have any concerns you could take it over to Scuba World... they work on those. They might want to take a peek inside and check the intermediate and cracking pressures. They probably charge 20 bucks or so but it might be worth the piece of mind. Hey... looks good. Do you have a scuba tool? No? You might want to get one... they're very handy. Oh man... we should have put on some hose protectors! Oh, you don't have any. Grab those. Here, use this hose puller and spray a little silicone on there... those babies can be a *&^%$ to put on. When you get done you can through it on one of our tanks to see if it leaks. Yah... one second, Andy. OK... let's see... that's 24.95 for the scuba tool and the hose protectors are on the house. Hey... do you have a reg bag? Take a look at those over there. We have some nice mouth pieces right next to 'em if you want something a little more comfortable than what came with your reg.

Sounds like you run a great shop! This is exactly what I mean and is in contrast to the feeling the original poster gave when he said that he does not want to take it to his LDS in fear that they charge him for it since he did not buy it there. That suggests other behaviour on part of his LDS. In fact he did not even ask his LDS. But already fearing this shows what attitude he normally gets from that shop. No one is talking about parasites exploiting a shop. If you identify those in your shop, just ask them to go elsewhere.

In your shop it would be a pleasure to go to and buy stuff and get advice. Too bad I do not have one like this in my area.
A.

 

[miketsp]

..snip..
How many of you think your local mechanic should - for free - install the upper radiator hose you just bought at Auto-Zone for you?
..snip..

Auto-Zone and an LDS are working quite different markets.
The major difference is supply and demand.
Most car repair shops are doing work that the customer has to have done.
Most LDS sales come from optional purchases/service.

I could easily still be diving with the same wetsuit/fins/mask etc that I had 30 years ago (I still have them ) but I've upgraded/changed a lot of times. Many of those purchases came about while browsing dive shops. Shops with a poor attitude would have lost a lot of sales.
After OW many divers look for extra courses. I won't say most because according to the statistics many divers never do another course. But for those that do, a friendly environment weighs a lot in the decision about where to do them.
Many divers only rent gear - that's a tremendous opportunity to explain the advantages of owning.
The list goes on.
Of course the trick is to strike the commercial balance.

 

[oly5050user]

different business model

which is what LDS guys don't seem to comprehend (they don't sell their time;
they don't charge customers hourly fees)

now, let's approximate the example a bit better.

you go to the mechanic and want to glue a new rearview mirror, and you have
the mirror and the glue, but are not sure how to do it.

he does it for you (takes about two minutes) and charges nothing ...

how likely are you to return to that shop?

am i suggesting a dive shop do maintanence on a regulator for free? no.

am i suggesting they take two minutes to do something that costs them nothing
in order to build client goodwill?

yes

the smart ones are already doing it, and getting my money

you say the time it takes for the facility "costs them nothing"..it does cost for they are in the store all day waiting to serve customers like you..That costs money and they should be compensated,especially if you come in for the regulator to be assembled and purchase nothing,as very often the case is..Come in and purchase a regulator bag,hose protectors,lanyards,spare mouthpeices etc..and then we will be happy to assemble and inspect your regulator..otherwise be prepared to pay for that service..

 

[Rick Murchison]

Even though you THINK that doing free work makes for a loyal customer and brings money to the shop down the road, more often it just doesn't. What it does do frequently is build a customer that always is expecting free this and that, a customer that haggles you over every deal, a customer that still goes where ever they can pinch a penny or two.

Well, I see there are at least two of us who have actually been in retail.
In the meantime, I'm gonna send a few pieces of paper to Andy from time to time for him to look over and certify that they are lawyer-perfect - just a few short waivers and contracts and such. Shouldn't take him over a minute or two for each one, and, of course, any liability he incurs by reviewing them and signing off on them for me is no big deal, since it's such a simple job and doesn't take any time to speak of. Free, of course. But I'll be loyal, and take all my free business to him. Who knows, someday I may need something substantial in a legal way and I might choose him, since he's been so good to me
Rick