attaching hoses, can I do this or LDS?

[AlexMDiver]

hahahaha!!

oh man, you're funny....

time on the lds part: less than a minute

check proper function: hook it up to a tank and open the tank (i can do that!)

take up tennis or something: so i can be ripped off by them checking out whether i tied my shoe laces right? that could be dangerous, you know...

:shakehead

if the LDS had any sense, it would do this as a free service for their valued
customer.

i mean, isn't taht why i'm supposed to buy from the LDS and not online, for all the "added value" i am going to get down the road?

:shakehead

Very good. :lol:

To be fair, the guy asking the question is not perhaps yet a "customer", since he has not bought anything yet.
But if you treat every person in your shop as a "customer" then you would do a lot better. I mean, not you, him.
Yeah, I recently went into my tennis shop and got the new TennisPro Mk25 X650 racket. I got the DIN version though. But the grip tape on the racket was another 20 bucks.:shakehead At least I got 2 bucks of my next tennis class.

 

[AlexMDiver]

This has all been pretty much covered, but I think a summary is in order
That's a bit steep, yes... but then I do have another related question. At what point does your time and acceptance of liability become worthless?
---
As an instructor, any time I do any maintenance to anyone else's gear (no matter how slight ), I've (1) used my professional skill and knowledge to do the maintenance and (2) committed the "maintenance act" and have accepted some level of liability. Should that be free? My insurance company isn't offering any "free coverage specials" today - is yours?
---
Now, as a matter of course, if someone who is in a paying class needs a little minor maintenance on gear I consider it an "included item" in the class. Even if it isn't a class I'll generally do it. But it is a gift from me, never without value and no one is right who says "it should be free," because it is not free to the LDS or the instructor whose time and liability you're using. TANSTAAFL applies.
---
Now, back to the "do it yourself" of hoses. It is not magic, but there are a couple of points that have some importance. Most of us are accustomed to working with steel. Most regulators are brass, and softer. Be gentle, be careful. Brass is not as tolerant of cross-threading or over-torquing as steel and you can easily damage the first stage if you do either. If you're going to use your regulator for oxygen or rich deco mix, don't use silicone grease anywhere on it or its hoses or o-rings, use an oxygen compatible lubricant like Christo-Lube or Krytox. In any event use the tiniest amount possible.
Do a leak check when you're done. You don't even need to have a bathtub handy; just spray some diluted liquid soap (I use 50% baby shampoo/50% water in a spray bottle) on the pressurized reg. Rinse it when you're done.
Rick

Ok, now you bring up the liability issue. Why not just add 20 cents onto anything you sell, and then hose changes can still be free for your customer. It makes a lot better impression on the customer, I assure you. You can smile and say "this is always free for my customers, if I have a spare minute" and think "ha ha ha, I am getting it back when you buy your gear", but the customer says "wow, this shop is great. People still do stuff for free....awesome service and value".

LDS owners always maintain a group of dive "friends" in their shop. But you notice how much of a friend you are when you ask for a hose switch. "I don't mind going for a beer with you after our pool session, but oh yeah, that hose switch...well that uses my expert experience in the art of diving and hence costs you 2.99" (if 20 is a bit steep). I am trying to be provocative, I know.

Sorry, but if you are doing a job very few people can do, then two minutes worth you time is worth something. In this case it really does not apply. Once the customer learns how easy it is, he will feel short changed.
In brain surgery, ok, you can charge a lot more for two minutes.

 

[Rick Murchison]

but the customer says "wow, this shop is great. People still do stuff for free....awesome service and value"

In fact what happens is that the shop ends up doing more and more for less and less until they're out of the business.
It happens all the time. That doesn't mean that you have to charge for everything you do; it does mean that you don't do it for nothing, that freebies are "included with the sale."
Those who seek freebies, and especially those who do not value other people's time and expertise, and double especially those who think others should "do stuff for free" are the very first to turn on the hand that feeds them and sue.
No, if someone doesn't value my time and knowledge enough to pay for them then they are not a customer, they are a parasite, and their "business" needs to go elsewhere.
Rick

 

[Rich Courtney]

In fact what happens is that the shop ends up doing more and more for less and less until they're out of the business.
It happens all the time. That doesn't mean that you have to charge for everything you do; it does mean that you don't do it for nothing, that freebies are "included with the sale."
Those who seek freebies, and especially those who do not value other people's time and expertise, and double especially those who think others should "do stuff for free" are the very first to turn on the hand that feeds them and sue.
No, if someone doesn't value my time and knowledge enough to pay for them then they are not a customer, they are a parasite, and their "business" needs to go elsewhere.
Rick

I think we all kind of lost perspective here......this was originally about attaching hoses to a first stage and I still think that's absolutely ridiculous to charge for that!!

Let's say a longtime customer comes in and wants his tanks VIPed, I'm not going to charge him to dissassemble and reassemble his doubles. I'm already charging him for the VIPs, the stickers, the neck O-ring etc and filling his doubles with Nitrox and that's where we make the money. Why charge him for something it takes me 10 minutes to do, and I know my boss will back me up on this one!

A lot of all this really depends on the individual, their attitude and how busy I am at the time. I know things work a little bit differently down here in cave country, but at our sister shop my boss has a big sign saying "if we don't take care of the customer, somebody else will" and that is one thing that all dive shops should live by. Just my thoughts as usual.....

Safe diving,

Rich

 

[Rick Murchison]

I think we all kind of lost perspective here......this was originally about attaching hoses to a first stage and I still think that's absolutely ridiculous to charge for that!!

Since we're carrying things to extremes for the sake of example, Rich, just how many hoses will you attach for nothing for strangers who bought elsewhere and aren't likely to spend any other money with you either before you say "enough!" I've got to do somethng to make money?
If you'll actually read what I've written you'll see that I, for one, don't charge for hose attachments... but then I don't attach hoses for folks who aren't somehow paying for the service in other ways, either. And I don't expect others to do things for me as some kind of "right." What I'm seeing from several posters here is just such a claim to a "right" to their LDS's time and expertise without payment or even gratitude, and that's just wrong.
Rick

 

[oly5050user]

In fact what happens is that the shop ends up doing more and more for less and less until they're out of the business.
It happens all the time. That doesn't mean that you have to charge for everything you do; it does mean that you don't do it for nothing, that freebies are "included with the sale."
Those who seek freebies, and especially those who do not value other people's time and expertise, and double especially those who think others should "do stuff for free" are the very first to turn on the hand that feeds them and sue.
No, if someone doesn't value my time and knowledge enough to pay for them then they are not a customer, they are a parasite, and their "business" needs to go elsewhere.
Rick

Thank you Rick..the people that want something for nothing(purchase elsewhere and expect you to service said item) are usually the same ones who NEVER buy anything or take any training from the facility and are the first to complain..yeah it takes only a few minutes to assemble and check out a regulator,which is free on purchase, but to do it free for a parasite-cannot do ..Help me pay my rent,phone ,insurance etc..

 

[Rich Courtney]

Since we're carrying things to extremes for the sake of example, Rich, just how many hoses will you attach for nothing for strangers who bought elsewhere and aren't likely to spend any other money with you either before you say "enough!" I've got to do somethng to make money?
If you'll actually read what I've written you'll see that I, for one, don't charge for hose attachments... but then I don't attach hoses for folks who aren't somehow paying for the service in other ways, either. And I don't expect others to do things for me as some kind of "right." What I'm seeing from several posters here is just such a claim to a "right" to their LDS's time and expertise without payment or even gratitude, and that's just wrong.
Rick

I see your point, Rick....don't get me wrong

I'm pretty sure you know where I work and I guess I'm lucky that we're kind of different from an LDS due to the fact that we're off the beaten track and I normally don't have people drop in to attach hoses etc.....plus most of my customers don't want other people touching their gear anyways.

The level of diving knowledge out here is vastly different from the average, as we are a cave diving oriented shop first and foremost and 95% of my customers are cave divers. It just seems to me lately that more and more people are trying to get in on the action or get their piece of the pie so to speak, and courtesy, loyalty and honesty seem to have no meaning anymore...

Safe diving,

Rich

 

[GreenDiverDown]

Online stores that sell these regs should inspect and test them before shipping and they should include instructions an how to assemble them. I would guess that a place like Scuba Toys does this but I doubt that LP checks out their regs.

Maybe, instead of complaining about shops that want to charge for their services, you should complain to your online store for not taking care of their customer.

I don't see what the problem is. If you don't want to pay for what you believe to be a ridiculously simple job, then why not get out your wrench and scubatool and do it yourself.

 

[GreenDiverDown]

..yeah it takes only a few minutes to assemble and check out a regulator...

You're forgetting one important thing... you know where your reg came from and you have the confidence that your manufacturer sent you a good reg.

When someone brings you a "new" reg from LP... you know nothing about it. To be sure that it is as it should be will require more of your time than just tightening up a few hoses. I'm not sure that I would want that liability... period.

 

[H2Andy]

well... i guess this is business 101, but you get business ONE CUSTOMER AT A TIME,
right?

shop 1: yeah, i'll change the hose. it will take me a minute. where did you buy this?
why aren't you taking it there? you know, we had a special on these a while back,
could have set you up with a nice discount, and we do maintenance right here.

shop 2: that will be $25.00. you bought that on line? you're putting your life at risk.
and now you want me to work on your reg for you? you're lucky i can find time for you.


now ... which of those shops do you think i'll go back to?

which one has earned my business at this moment?

treat me like i'm a deadbeat for just showing up at your shop and i aint coming
back guys .... it really is that simple

the one thing you guys can smoke the internet on is service, advice, and friendly faces greeting you at the door.

and yet, why is it that most shops have no time for you, try to sell you what you don't need, and treat you like a bum if you show up with something you didn't buy there?

not smart