Atomic 1st stage sealing is getting expensive

[Scared Silly]

BTW for sealing the reg you can use CristoLube 129 (static seals) which is usually cheaper than Christolube 111 (dynamic parts).

 

[beanojones]

Even in Hawaii, unlimited banked 32%/36% can be had for around 27 cents a day or less...though you'd have to be filling tanks every day fully realize that level of savings

Wait, are you saying nitrox fills are available for $.27 more than air fills?

The costs of running a nitrox fill station are significantly higher than running an air fill station. Banks are expensive, filters are expensive, Oxygen is expensive. In no universe is there a difference of pennies between air and nitrox from the fill station side. And that is completely ignoring labor and libaility costs of Nitrox fills.

There might be shops willing to subsidize the cost of Nitrox. But there are not many, as in none, of those shops around 5 years down the road.

But anyway, those are issues for dive shops not divers.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

No, I'm saying, as to your point about divers willing to pay for EAN not really caring about an extra $40 at their annual service, even here in the middle of frigging nowhere there's an established dive shop that's been running since the 70s willing fill 2 tanks a day with whatever you like (air, banked 32, or banked 36) for an annual fee that works out to $0.27/day ($0.20 for military). I dearly love Aaron's for making the cost of keeping a whole herd of doubles very low...and they even get my 3500psi tanks to 3500psi cold sometimes

Since the cost of the christolube packing is around half of the cost of diving 2 tanks of EAN a day, everyday, for a whole year in one of the most gas-expensive spots on Earth...I could see someone who dives nothing but EAN still caring a great deal about the additional service costs of an O2 safe lube where it might not be needed.

 

[eelnoraa]

Not necesarry about poor or not, but about whether there is a need or not.

If people are that poor that they cannot afford ChristoLube, then they are not paying for Nitrox fills anyway.

Not everyone bought new Ti reg at $1500. What if someone just happened to come across a used reg at good price and also happened to be Ti. I think haveing Ti reg and paying extra $40 at each service for sealing is a different topic

Or buying Ti regulators for that matter!

 

[beanojones]

No, I'm saying, as to your point about divers willing to pay for EAN not really caring about an extra $40 at their annual service, even here in the middle of frigging nowhere there's an established dive shop that's been running since the 70s willing fill 2 tanks a day with whatever you like (air, banked 32, or banked 36) for an annual fee that works out to $0.27/day ($0.20 for military). I dearly love Aaron's for making the cost of keeping a whole herd of doubles very low...and they even get my 3500psi tanks to 3500psi cold sometimes

Since the cost of the christolube packing is around half of the cost of diving 2 tanks of EAN a day, everyday, for a whole year in one of the most gas-expensive spots on Earth...I could see someone who dives nothing but EAN still caring a great deal about the additional service costs of an O2 safe lube where it might not be needed.

Yeah Aaron's does do a lot of loss leader stuff, but I did not know about that one. That's an awesome deal! (They get those prices by underpaying employees and instructors as I well know. I can say nothing bad about a shop that takes care of its customers like that, but they still owe me a couple weeks pay, dangit! Of course, at their wages, that's only about $20.00 but still.)

I wonder how that works out for them. It's basically a membership fee, right? Once they get the numbers they can run a membrane, and other than the cost of membranes getting killed by the tropics, they don't have to go full O2 clean to fill the banks, which keeps their costs down.

Again, that is awesome!

At least Atomic only needs service every other year, for divers. And as noted, no need to fill the chamber.

If someone is really trying to save money, and they still want to pack the chamber, they can re-use the Christolube anyway.

 

[halocline]

Not necesarry about poor or not, but about whether there is a need or not.
Not everyone bought new Ti reg at $1500. What if someone just happened to come across a used reg at good price and also happened to be Ti. I think haveing Ti reg and paying extra $40 at each service for sealing is a different topic

First, my comment was a bit tongue-in-cheek. I didn't mean to imply anything, and I certainly get the idea of wanting to save money. If you bought the reg used and have no need to keep the 'free' parts going, I would suggest that an atomic with a packed chamber should go a few hundred dives (maybe 300-350?) between services easily. That should be several years unless you're really diving a lot. You can use the less expensive Christolube or Tribolube, that's what I use, and that saves some money. Or you could use silicone, and that might last longer (it's definitely thicker) but at that point with a Ti reg and silicone, maybe nitrox isn't a good idea....I don't really know how dangerous, but definitely not recommended by the manufacturer.

As far as not sealing the chamber, I think you just want to make sure there's good drainage from the chamber by adjusting or removing the boot. I'm not sure how it works on Atomic regs; on my MK10s (which look very similar) I would just remove the boot. I have seen boots with holes in them lining up with the holes in the ambient chamber so that water can freely flow in and out of the chamber; if you can do that, that would work too. It's just very important to make sure you get all the salt water out of the ambient chamber after a dive.

 

[eelnoraa]

Ok, back to the original topic. I finally get every done. A few things I notice:

1. There is at least one noticable advantage to sealing the 1st stage. It is the condition of the spring and piston. It is a pretty old reg, the original T1. The condition of the piston and spring are like new, both parts are still shiny. Other non sealed piston 1st stages I have, these parts don't look shiny anymore depiste being much newer reg

2. Christolube is a lot less "lube" like than I expected, nothing like silicon. It is more like paste. I can see the advantage of this texture to be less likely to attract sands and other small debris.

3. 2nd stage service kit I got this time has just o-rings. I vaguely remember last kit I got include the balance chamber plastic thing. I didn't do the last service, but I got the old parts back from the shop. Did Atomic change their 2nd stage kit?

Overall, I am very impressed with Atomic's machining accuracy and overall detail in fit and finish.

 

[Scared Silly]

The original balance chamber needed to be replaced for some reason - I can not remember why. So the older kits had it but new ones do not. As for the spring condition, sealing the reg will obviously protect it but a good soak and adequate drying will also maintain the condition.

FWIW if one does some looking the original titanium reg, T1, T1x can often be found for a very reasonable cost. Upgrading the piston to monel and rebuilding it will run ya $100, updating and rebuilding the 2nd stage around $50. That is for parts only. So one can get a titanium reg for a reasonable cost. The T2/T2x are going from $700-$800 now and are not much different except for the bling.

 

[beanojones]

Are you just suggesting move to the jet seat style and saving money by buying Monel instead of Titanium? (I don't even know if they still have pre Jet seat stuff anymore for sale. The latest price list does not list the original Titanium Piston anymore, so I guess that answers that.)

---------- Post added July 2nd, 2013 at 07:16 PM ----------

2. Christolube is a lot less "lube" like than I expected, nothing like silicon. It is more like paste. I can see the advantage of this texture to be less likely to attract sands and other small debris.

It's not any less likely to attract crap than silicone.

What I have noticed in rebuilding gear packed with Christolube and Silicone:
Silicone flows more, and over time gets thinner it seems. Where it stays, it tends to protect against corrosion better than Christolube becasue the pasty-ness of Christolube makes it not necessarily flow to all the nooks and crannies. But Christolube stays.

This lack of flow of the Christolube is why Atomic has that special packing tool because it needs some real pressure to flow to all the nooks and crannies.

---------- Post added July 2nd, 2013 at 07:27 PM ----------

1. There is at least one noticable advantage to sealing the 1st stage. It is the condition of the spring and piston. It is a pretty old reg, the original T1. The condition of the piston and spring are like new, both parts are still shiny. Other non sealed piston 1st stages I have, these parts don't look shiny anymore depiste being much newer reg

That's at least partly a function of Titanium, not the sealing. Titanium is non-reactive, and chrome is reactive to sea-water. I have crapped out basically all my chromed brass regulators, and my Atomic titanium regs look like they are brand new all the time. At least the metal parts do.

I wonder how the Monel lasts in bad conditions.

I only use Atomic Second stages myself, but I work on the first stages. No one kills their gear quite like pros, and no pro I know uses the Titanium first stages. I have seen a couple of dead Z1 second stages crapped out from corrosion.

 

[Scared Silly]

Are you just suggesting move to the jet seat style and saving money by buying Monel instead of Titanium? (I don't even know if they still have pre Jet seat stuff anymore for sale. The latest price list does not list the original Titanium Piston anymore, so I guess that answers that.)

The original piston was never Ti, it was stainless steel. The T1x I picked up has the original "sharp" piston. When updating to the jet seat piston I installed the monel piston instead of the stainless piston. The monel piston was not that much more and given that the gas flow across the edge is potential hot spot I figured I would hedge my bets.

That's at least partly a function of Titanium, not the sealing. Titanium is non-reactive, and chrome is reactive to sea-water. I have crapped out basically all my chromed brass regulators, and my Atomic titanium regs look like they are brand new all the time. At least the metal parts do.

Except that the spring is stainless steel. Which sealing will protect. If a monel piston well that is what it is suppose to do - be highly corrosion resistant. BTW most people think stainless steel will not rust. It can.