Atomic 1st stage sealing is getting expensive

[eelnoraa]

Thanks for the assurance. I tend to agree with you on the "no need to sea"l part too. Mk25 cant be sealed, and Baue divers take them to tech2 depth all the time. In fact, I spoke to Frank, he also said don't bother in Monterey.

what do you mean by atomic set IP at very bottom range? What is the proper IP I should target?

Hi Aaron:

I have the Atomic Z2 and have taken it to 100 feet. Never had any problems. Never had any contamination or malfunction of any sort. It bothered me that Atomic set the IP at the very bottom range of the specification. Installed a few shims to get it at mid-point. Didn't see anything of concern on the spring, piston or chamber when I took it apart. With proper care, this should pose a concern.

O.

 

[beanojones]

So by the same logic, christolube will also wander onto HP seat. If not >40%, is there any reason why silicone on HP seat bad, but christolube on HP seat OK?

As noted Silicone is flammable, Christolube is not.

It is worth repeating that an Atomic regulator Titanium first stage is the only one to actually catch on fire with Nitrox. With Titanium, which is not considered oxygen-service compatible, getting it right is not just a theoretical concern.

I am a huge Atomic honk, and I love titanium for marine use. But with titanium and O2 service, it's not a theoretical issue.

 

[eelnoraa]

Understood. I was just wondering, I won't pack the chamber with silicone, hahah

This Atomic T1 is Yoke 1st stage, it is for recreation and travel use, single tank. It won't even see above 40%. So no high O2% here.

 

[Ouvea]

what do you mean by atomic set IP at very bottom range? What is the proper IP I should target?

IP Range of the Atomic second stage is 125-145 PSI. Both of mine read 125PSI with a full tank (3500 & 3300PSI). I installed a couple of shims to get the IP to 135PSI. Can I tell a difference between either of my regulators pre and post? I think I can, but I wouldn't put it past placebo effect. It was more for peace of mind. Whether the procedure was truly needed. It probably has the same merit as the environmental seal.

 

[herman]

As noted Silicone is flammable, Christolube is not.

It is worth repeating that an Atomic regulator Titanium first stage is the only one to actually catch on fire with Nitrox. With Titanium, which is not considered oxygen-service compatible, getting it right is not just a theoretical concern.

I am a huge Atomic honk, and I love titanium for marine use. But with titanium and O2 service, it's not a theoretical issue.

I know it's constantly stated that silicone is not O2 safe but can anyone show me where it says that in any official literature? I don't mean a scuba manual or the like but a real O2 compatibility study. I have been hunting for some documentation on the subject but so far all I have found is an official Dow Corning (for 111 which is a very common reg lube) publication stating it's not suitable for LOX (liquid oxygen) but it said nothing about O2 gas and another study that concluded all silicone lubes are OK up to a pressure of 1MPa (roughtly 145 psi) and most were good up to 2MPa but again that was with pure O2 (dow 111 was tested during the study and was rated at over 2MPa). My point being is, are we being told that relatively cheap silicone is not acceptable for rec nitrox (<40%) for valid reasons or just a marketing scheme that has gotten out of hand?

 

[eelnoraa]

Got it. I will try to target 135.

However, I think I heard somewhere before that for cold water, IP was turned lower to avoid free flow. I could be wrong. But I guess Monterey isn't that cold at all. haha

IP Range of the Atomic second stage is 125-145 PSI. Both of mine read 125PSI with a full tank (3500 & 3300PSI). I installed a couple of shims to get the IP to 135PSI. Can I tell a difference between either of my regulators pre and post? I think I can, but I wouldn't put it past placebo effect. It was more for peace of mind. Whether the procedure was truly needed. It probably has the same merit as the environmental seal.

 

[halocline]

Whoops, you are correct sir! Of course there is the HP shaft O-ring, which would allow silicone to wander right to the HP seat.

That's pretty unlikely considering there's a huge pressure gradient pushing the o-ring (and grease) away from the HP seat. The environmental grease is on the ambient side. I don't think the bit about using O2 compatible grease to seal the chamber has to do with the grease getting into the regulator. I believe it's about not providing fuel in case there's an O2 fire. And, certainly the problem of cross contamination during re-build would be an issue. I guess you could lube the HP o-ring with PTFE grease, assemble, and then shoot silicone into the chamber, but I pack grease around the piston before assembling to make sure I don't have any air pockets on my MK10s that are sealed.

 

[beanojones]

I know it's constantly stated that silicone is not O2 safe but can anyone show me where it says that in any official literature? I don't mean a scuba manual or the like but a real O2 compatibility study. I have been hunting for some documentation on the subject but so far all I have found is an official Dow Corning (for 111 which is a very common reg lube) publication stating it's not suitable for LOX (liquid oxygen) but it said nothing about O2 gas and another study that concluded all silicone lubes are OK up to a pressure of 1MPa (roughtly 145 psi) and most were good up to 2MPa but again that was with pure O2 (dow 111 was tested during the study and was rated at over 2MPa). My point being is, are we being told that relatively cheap silicone is not acceptable for rec nitrox (<40%) for valid reasons or just a marketing scheme that has gotten out of hand?

I heard that silicone was determined to be a cause of the Atomic Titanium Nitrox fire, and it was in part in response to that most manufacturers starting specifying Christolube in rebuilding regs for everything. I also heard that benches/dive shops with a mix of silicone impregnated equipment and ChristoLube impregnated equipment was why OSHA was pushing hard to keep Nitrox out of dive shops, which is why PADI stayed out of Nitrox for so long. I think the manufacturers as a whole realized that if OSHA came in, everyone's life would get difficult, which is why they basically overnight all started spec-ing silicone. Add the the actual fire in a first stage issue and it is for the manufacturers not really a question.

I am sure there is some idiot-proofing going on, but there was an actual fire in a Atomic Titanium first stage using Nitrox and silicone.

I am also fully aware that we in the industry still use silicone by the ton for cost reasons. But then again we almost exclusively use air and not Nitrox for the same cost reasons. But for individuals, diving for fun, the cost versus safety issue is a no-brainer: use ChristoLube (Or TriboLube to save a few bucks). And use Nitrox.

If people are that poor that they cannot afford ChristoLube, then they are not paying for Nitrox fills anyway.

 

[halocline]

If people are that poor that they cannot afford ChristoLube, then they are not paying for Nitrox fills anyway.

Or buying Ti regulators for that matter!

 

[Dr. Lecter]

If people are that poor that they cannot afford ChristoLube, then they are not paying for Nitrox fills anyway.

Even in Hawaii, unlimited banked 32%/36% can be had for around 27 cents a day or less...though you'd have to be filling tanks every day fully realize that level of savings