At what point do you run a line?

[Sloth]

Scared Silly, I don't know how much experience you have handling line underwater, but it's nasty stuff. It wraps around anything it gets near, and it knots itself almost instantly and in very creative ways.

This is a very good point to make. Running line is not some magical get out of jail free card.

My first experience on running line was when my AOW wreck course instructor handed me a reel on a wreck at 100' and told me to run stern to bow. It was not a disaster but I quickly made the decision not to (trunk) monkey with it until I get more formal training.

Any answer here should include; ".....but only run line if you have the proper training or experience". Which I personally still need both of.

 

[Kim]

Any answer here should include; ".....but only run line if you have the proper training or experience". Which I personally still need both of.

Which is why it's rather important to establish what kind of overheads people should stay out of....until they have the proper training and experience, which will include running line.
It seems to me the answer in the GUE world is probably..."Until Cave1/Tech1" - but the definitions of what's acceptable aren't actually in place yet. (or MIGHT be but haven't been posted here)

Believe me....the overhead isn't going to ask which credentials you have before it kills you if you screw up.

 

[Meng_Tze]

Let me put it in a different way.(partly rehashing #43)

If at any time you enter a physical overhead you need to run a line. If your experience tells you that you will be okay to exit in the worst case scenario, some poeple opt not to put one in. I am NOT saying don't put one in, I am saying know what you are able/capable of and how you will handle the worst case scenario. If at any doubt, you need to put one in
or dont dive there.

What is that worst case scenario: (and I call them out separately, but they could be joined)

-silt out, loss of vis
-black out, loss of lights. Including the sun/daylight
-loss of direction, just plainly lost
-your buddy (who knows the system) is lost/separated, now you alone must make it out.

Bottom line: you can't see the exit nor do you know where it is. How do you get out?

(and I haven't even begun to discuss the other compounding factors)

A line in an overhead environment is not to get you back, it is to get you out. This can mean returning to the point of entry, or a traverse. How ever either of these two looks on a map, you need to get out.

In the recent posts people are talking about line retrieval constructions, debating if/how.

If you are debating that, you may not be ready for an overhead swim. My personal view is to drop a line in and leave it. A few feet of line off my spool/reel is worth me getting out alive. But make sure it is put in neatly, you don't want it to snag some other diver.

A tubular, large sized swimthrough for me personally does not request a line. Any deck on a wreck does, it does not matter how many times I have been there. In a spree of Murphy's tea party, any well seasoned diver (anybody in the team) may make a mistake, a solid line may be the only lifeline out.

 

[Doc Intrepid]

Apropos of your scenarios above, one of the scariest things I've heard of (but have never experienced personally, I admit) are tales of guided dives at destination dive resorts.

I'm informed by three of my dive buddies who have been on multiple vacations, (and numerous threads on SB,) that dive masters will lead a little conga line of recreational divers on swim throughs that can involve as much as 12' -25' or more (varies) of basically a single tunnel overhead. Yeah, assuming nothing goes wrong, it may be reasonably safe (can't silt out, no other tunnels branching off, etc.) but what I'd worry about is one of the tourists having a seizure or heart attack, or otherwise suddenly becoming a huge obstruction when I have 5 or 6 enthusiastic divers piling in behind me. Can't go forward, can't go back. Can't adequately deal with the stricken diver. Plus some of these are in 100' of seawater or so...and everyone is on single aluminum 80s. Sounds like the recipe for a nightmare.

It isn't running a line, per se, its anticipating the totality of what could conceivably go wrong, and being able to adequately respond to whatever it is that is important to me. These adventures sound like tragedies waiting in the wings, to me...but to those who do them frequently I suppose my perspective sounds outrageously alarmist. Perspective makes all the difference in the world.

 

[Meng_Tze]

..having a seizure or otherwise suddenly becoming a huge obstruction when I have 5 or 6 enthusiastic divers piling in behind me. Can't go forward, can't go back. Can't adequately deal with the stricken diver. Plus some of these are in 100' of seawater or so...and everyone is on single aluminum 80s. Sounds like the recipe for a nightmare....

It isn't running a line, per se, its anticipating the totality of what could conceivably go wrong, and being able to adequately respond to whatever..

Spot on Doc, the compounding factors......absence of line may prevent you from getting out.... compounding factors kill you. And the grim reaper puts on a bib.

 

[Kevrumbo]

Yep --I concur. When in doubt, whip it out; run at least a line from a spool. If the hypothetical cavern is a swimthru/traverse, secure the line (pay it out to the bitter end, or cut it --retain your spool) and leave it. Clean it up on subsequent dives if you can safely & responsibly do so.

Caveline #24 is cheap . . .your welfare and the Team's is not.

 

[TSandM]

Well, I think what's come out of this discussion is that there are grey areas, as RTodd said at the beginning.

I'm a pretty risk-averse diver (which is part of why I went DIR in the first place). I'm always thinking about the "what-ifs", and I err on the side of caution whenever a decision needs to be made. But I'm still going to swim under arches on sandy bottoms without running line. I'm NOT going to do the Devil's Throat dive in Cozumel (and I didn't, when I was there) because it's an overhead where a line isn't going to help you -- As Doc says, getting stuck in a single file arrangement in a long tube and having a gas emergency or something else going wrong can kill you, and a line isn't going to help you there. I'll still do the Cathedrals in Lanai without a line -- Even a whole crew of recreational flutter kickers can't kick up enough sand to silt out all the exits from that huge room.

Common sense. I still think I'm allowed to use it.

 

[ArcticDiver]

It seems that my last post resulted in folks jumping from one horn of the bull to the other. What is needed is to stop in the middle, where the brain is.

When I said "swimthrough", I meant swimthrough. I didn't mean cave. I didn't mean extended overhead. I didn't mean following another person so I might get stuck mid-traverse and have to come back.

I try to stay off the pointy thingies and on the thinking middle where I'm supposed to be. It has worked so far.

 

[Kevrumbo]

Alright Lynne, I get the gist. Some personal concrete examples:
Blue Holes in Palau -no need to run line.

At the other extreme, Uncle Ricky's quote of DrMike's near tragedy (btw, that was on the Battleship Prince of Wales, and I saw the torpedo hole he went into at 62m -no 'effin way was I going in there) -Yes, you would definitely run a line!


Gray area --Devils Throat in Cozumel -a three person team, minimum AL100 single tanks each with standard 7'long hose, trim & slim configuration: running line is optional, but consider that a swimthrough from top entrance to bottom exit should be done quickly and smartly especially on single tank (i.e.-you don't have time to patiently & strategically lay a line with wraps & locking hitches). Push through any momentary silt-outs to the exit, and don't get stuck! A doable dive, but risky with no wiggle room for any major contingencies within the overhead. . .

 

[Vayu]

Common sense. I still think I'm allowed to use it.

There are some overhead dives in Florida where you might think running a line is not mandatory. Once inside, you will quickly regret the absence of a line. Common sense dictates to run a line to open water when entering an overhead environment. Better safe than sorry.

One of the killers of the overhead environment is how easy it can appear to dive it. Diving without training or a line in places that appear easy has killed more than one diver.

Additionally, if you personally believe it is ok to dive some places without a line, I question posting this online. You'd be surprised how many divers can get into trouble in places that may be a simple dive for someone else. This practice of no line diving should not be publicized on scubaboard particularly when it concerns basic safety considerations and DIR diving.