At what point do you run a line?

[boomx5]

It is just too gray to answer. I admit to doing fairly long swimtrhoughs in the carribean without even considering a reel but I am with other experienced divers and it isn't like you can't exit most of these without a mask or light. Wrecks are much tougher to judge and it depends greatly on the individual's experience and the wreck. I don't run reels on the gutted, holes everywhere recreational wrecks and I will swim through them on a single tank. But, a deeper "non-cleaned" wreck in colder water - reel and doubles every time.

The best rule of thumb I ever received was from Trout when discussing not running a reel on scooter dives in the Ear at Ginnie. His rule, once you are comfortable exiting a particular cave with a busted ear drum, flooded drysuit and no mask or lights while sharing air, then you can skip a primary reel. For cave diving not running a primary is in almost all cases stupid. (Although in my view all lines should go to open water anyway.)

Great answer right there!

 

[CompuDude]

Whether this thread moves elsewhere or stays here, I'd like to see other's responses. Interesting topic... what constitutes an overhead environment? Is it a firm 100% no exceptions whatsoever, if there is something "over your head" you need Cave1 training and to be running a line? Clearly not. So where does that line get drawn?

To SoCal divers, have you dove the Landing Cove site at Anacapa? Have you seen the swim-through that cuts under from the sandy area to the other side of the gully (for lack of a more precise term)? That certainly has a lot of rock "overhead" if you were to go through it, but is it really something the justifies the term "overhead environment" and going through all the safety procedures and training it would entail?

(See this video from approx 3:45-4:30 to see the swim-through in question)

 

[TSandM]

I've done the swim-through in Anacapa. It meets Rick's criteria for a swim-through, and mine for presenting no possibility of not getting back out.

 

[Rick Murchison]

... what constitutes an overhead environment? Is it a firm 100% no exceptions whatsoever, if there is something "over your head" you need Cave1 training and to be running a line? Clearly not. So where does that line get drawn?

If it's a swimthrough (as defined in my previous post) it doesn't constitute an overhead, because you can swim directly to the surface, albeit with one turn at the exit of the swimthrough.
IANTD calls (or at least they used to call) their cavern level course "Overhead Environment Diver," and I think those rules are appropriate for "light penetration."
** note that under my definition, there are no swimthroughs at night (unless it's a mighty full bright moon ) **
Personally, even in non-overhead environments, I introduce lines as a navigation aid in my OW classes, encourage their use in my basic navigation course, and require at least a spool for advanced Nitrox and beyond.
Rick

 

[Meng_Tze]

please read - and heed - the attached article.
Rick

No comment, it is self evident

 

[ArcticDiver]

For me the answer is in the basic purpose of the line. The basic purpose of a line is for navigation.

We usually equate running a line with an overhead environment. But, that is too limited. Any time navigation back to the place you want to be is not a certainty a line should be run. This may include an "open water" dive where getting back to the dive boat is essential and conditions make other navigation difficult.

I've seen people even tie off to the boat mooring line on a night, limited visibility dive. Not a thing wrong with that.

I agree, this is not strictly a DIR issue. It is a safe diving issue.

 

[Kim]

IANTD calls (or at least they used to call) their cavern level course "Overhead Environment Diver," and I think those rules are appropriate for "light penetration."

Actually....they used to call it "Eanx Overhead Environment" - that's the course I did. It applies to both caverns and wrecks given the same light rules. There seemed little point quoting that in this forum though.

For me...move the thread - then we can discuss it properly. While I'm sure that any DIR diver can come up with a perfectly sensible answer, I'm also fairly sure it's pure guesswork. I also find it's amusing that your answer Rick, is being taken as a "DIR" compliant one! Don't get me wrong - it's a great answer - fully in line with the IANTD training!

 

[RJP]

Running lines are not covered until Cave 1 or Tech 1.

Hmm, we covered line running and handling for two days in my NACD Cavern class.

 

[rainman_02]

I wanted the DIR discussion on it, because I think it's one of the grey areas in DIR. I know what the "book" answer is: If you *must* make it back to the start/anchor, then you must run a line.

But what are the practical limits? What do we say versus what we do?


RTodd hits the nail on the head: there is this giant grey area between the extremes I listed in the first post. So, how do we, as DIR divers, mitigate the various levels of risk? At what point do the risks associated with the dive outweigh the risks associated with running line? At what point does the line become an encumberance for no real reason?


I put the thread where I wanted it. Thanks for asking about moving it though, and starting a similar thread in the general tech forum might not be a bad idea. I agree it has "safe diving" aspects for all divers...but the whole idea I had in the thread start is "what are the practical uses versus theoretical uses?"


David

 

[rainman_02]

To add to the discussion.


Here is a swimthrough:



Or is it an overhead?



.