Article on Death In Ginnie Springs

[grf88]

He's got a little bit of a point about air being a weird gas for the Doria. Crappy bottom gas and a crappy deco gas.

But it I still think o2 in a bottle marked o2 isn't a big surprise.

At the risk of prompting another snide remark from abnfrog I will repeat what I mentioned previously. He took two bottles of O2 to the Doria but only used one. On return he filled the bottle that had been emptied and filled it with air for a trip to the caves. Unfortunately he took the other bottle of O2 that had not been used thinking it was the one with air. This is my understanding from what I have read.
Maybe abnfrog could explain the purpose of that post, my post was an attempt at further clarification of Jim Lapenta's post.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

He's got a little bit of a point about air being a weird gas for the Doria. Crappy bottom gas and a crappy deco gas.

But it I still think o2 in a bottle marked o2 isn't a big surprise.

Tell that to Gary Gentile.

 

[PfcAJ]

Air isn't a great gas for ginnie either.

 

[tomfcrist]

He's got a little bit of a point about air being a weird gas for the Doria. Crappy bottom gas and a crappy deco gas.

But it I still think o2 in a bottle marked o2 isn't a big surprise.

Tell that to Gary Gentile.

Or any of the other hundreds of divers that used air back gas on Doria. That's not to say that helium mixes aren't a much smarter bet.

 

[Keith.M]

I usually avoid getting into debates or accident analysis about cave diving, because I'm not a cave diver. But this wasn't a cave diving accident, this was a nitrox diver accident. Back when this happened, I looked at my shiny row of identical deco tanks with identical regs and rigging, into which I would generally place whatever mixes I wanted for a dive and then label them by hand...and decided that maybe I needed to be more open to dedicated tanks with dedicated mixes (now with CCR bailout, it's much less of an issue...those are some really dedicated tanks). Sure, I hadn't screwed up yet...but the possibility was not absent.

This accident just shows that keeping an open mind about our own fallibility is probably one of the most valuable skills we can hammer into ourselves, after self-reliance and panic control. Like someone's signature line reads, it's not what you don't know that kills you - it's what you know that just isn't so.

Wait, wha???

Dr. Lecter? Is that you?

I must say, that is your best post I have seen.

 

[Stoo]

It's the same in Canada, innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. I think Stoo is just referring to the way the accident scene is handled in order to not contaminate evidence until foul play is ruled out. Stoo please correct me if I am wrong.

Yes, let me clarify... the legal system of course presumes someone is innocent, but the mandate of the police is to fully investigate any death that wasn't obviously "natural" in order to determine if a crime was committed. In my experience, most of the time, this is brought to a conclusion very quickly, much like it was in Carlos' case. Ayisha will correct me, but in the case of the older gentleman who died on the Caroline Rose this past summer, it was pretty apparent that he had had a heart attack (I had friends directly involved) and in a case like that, the police investigation likely consisted of 10 minutes of interviewing witnesses and jotting a few notes down.

 

[wgw04024]

Ayisha will correct me, but in the case of the older gentleman who died on the Caroline Rose this past summer, it was pretty apparent that he had had a heart attack (I had friends directly involved) and in a case like that, the police investigation likely consisted of 10 minutes of interviewing witnesses and jotting a few notes down.

I was on a dive last summer, where there was a fatality by heart attack. The police did exactly as you described...interviewed everyone one at a time right after the dive, which took 10 minutes each or so, and that was the last I heard about it. The coroner confirmed what everyone suspected a couple of days later. Sad, had just met the guy that day, seemed like a great guy.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

P.S. The Andrea Doria is NOT a dive you do with Air.

O'RLY? Someone better tell most of the divers who explored the Doria back when it was the wreck to dive.

---------- Post added January 30th, 2015 at 05:37 PM ----------

Wait, wha???

Dr. Lecter? Is that you?

I must say, that is your best post I have seen.

I am generally more confident in my ability to manage myself, my equipment, and whatever goes wrong in my diving environment than most people seem to be when they analyze risk and settle on how to dive, but I certainly don't consider myself infallible. There were a number of similarities between myself and this particular dead diver, and learning from his mistakes rather than repeating them was a no-brainer. Some other things, like diving the Doria on air, I'm less willing to concede

 

[Stoo]

I was on a dive last summer, where there was a fatality by heart attack. The police did exactly as you described...interviewed everyone one at a time right after the dive, which took 10 minutes each or so, and that was the last I heard about it. The coroner confirmed what everyone suspected a couple of days later. Sad, had just met the guy that day, seemed like a great guy.

Dandy Don has just posted about another very similar case in the FL Keys today. I think that this sort of accident quickly becoming the main cause of accidental diving. At this rate, diving may soon pass lawn bowling as the sport with the greatest mortality rate.

 

[Six Feet Under]

something my old layer said to me years ago (hes a judge in the general divsion now , guess he was too effective defending ) that might be aprapo here ...never trust a cop or a reporter ...."they try to make something out of nothing thats their job "

After sitting in court earlier this week (on the prosecution's side), that sounds exactly like something a lawyer WOULD say.


As for the accident analysis... I have no cave diving experience, I didn't know Carlos, I wasn't there when he passed away, and I didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night... but some of you guys make me think you truly believe detectives, the ME, CST's, etc. get called out for any deceased person calls and do autopsies on everybody.


If the five W's are satisfied by interviewing witnesses and analyzing the oxygen content of the tanks, plus an autopsy, that is all that will be done in most cases...