Article: Inconsistent message to new divers

[Cosmographer]

You can view the page at http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/content.php?r=399-Inconsistent-message-to-new-divers

 

[bletso]

It's kind of a catch 22, damned if you do, damned if you don't. I think you have a fair understanding of the problem you outlined.

Dale

 

[Mark Derail]

One simple idea - checkout dive - with a DM/Instructor, one-to-one.

Should be mandatory, and enforced, for various conditions. Like getting certified in a quarry then doing an ocean dive - needs a checkout.
Haven't dove in X (months/years) needs a checkout.

The opposite - as was my case, trained locally, did the 4 student dives & skills in ocean. The local dive op made us do a checkout dive in freshwater.

FWIW, the extra checkout dive done locally is an FQAS requirement here in Quebec, and has to be renewed, etc, to prove basic Scuba competence.

 

[3BoyPapa]

We do refresher dives every spring at our local quarry and when we go to the ocean or lake, our 1st day and dive is always very conservative (depth, time, and the area we cover underwater) so that we can acclimate to the conditions, equipment, and location. I trust the DM/DI for navigation and the area we are diving if new, but underwater skills, safety, and even navigation remains my resposnisbility and that of each individual in my party. If anyone makes a safety call, we respect that and heed the decsion --- life and accidents are not worth it.


Great post and I appreciate the discussion.

 

[Shasta_man]

While I understand what you are saying I think the point is not quite so black and white. First, no, they should not be trust me dives. However, they aren't "I know it all" dives either. At this point in your "career", while you may not be able to argue with your DM, you should know, basically, what is right and what you should be doing. That's really the only point. Yes, you will be trusting to some extent because you just don't have enough experience regardless of what the training may be. However, you should know some basic limits like having working equipment, paying attention to where you are on the dive, check your own air, leave the freakin' camera on the boat, not going to 125 feet on dive 3, no night diving on dive 5, etc.

Implementation wise, trying to sort out newbies and require some checkout dive is never going to work because of the wide range of shops and locations in the world.

I also believe that experience is the most value thing you need and no amount of classes are going to teach that to you, so ignore any "you must take rescue diver immediately" tips because it's tough enough to handle yourself.

 

[diverjen]

As a very new diver who was fortunate enough to find SB, I think that part of the problem is money and convenience. Especially with the cert courses. They now have get certified in a weekend, beginning to end. Even my 6 day certification program was pushing it. I think that dive shops and cert organizations push these courses to be faster and more available. For example, I have 23 dives and have been on one dive trip after my OW, I am about to take a trip that will involve diving next week (although not a dive trip) and then have a dive trip planned in February. I live in a land locked state. I would love to work on skills frequently with more experienced divers. The easiest way to gain access to this would be to do AOW with the LDS. However, most people have advised against rushing into AOW right away. I believe it is partially because some AOW classes havethe attitude of push through the 5 dives so that you can get the cert as fast as possible creating convenience for the diver and certifying shop (as well as income). It would be great if there was more opportunity to learn and work on skills locally with a more advanced diver, without feeling like I am paying to get the cert so I can get even more over my head (pun intended) on my next dive trip with the false confidence I earned with AOW/Rescue etc. However - besides that tangent - I will say that SB has really opened my eyes to a lot of things, including the importance of taking personal responsibility while diving. And I agree that it can be intimidating to contradict some of the lax practices of DM/dive shops, etc. One of these reasons I was hesitant to become certified was due to safety issues from stories of folks I know that have gone diving and had incidents occur. I met a really great DM in Grand Cayman when I was a snorkeler and realized that knowing who (the caliber, responsibility level, etc.) you are going to dive with is also really important - especially if you do not have an assertive personality (such as myself). Now I just need to find some great instructors locally, I guess so that when I get AOW/Rescue diver, etc, I will know that I earned it and I will be better prepared to plan safe dives and to handle things when they go wrong, not just that now I can dive more recklessly.

 

[Sinbad the Diver]

i agree with just about everything you said. but i think what you are seeing is more of an internet message boardthing than a diver thing. the ananymity of the medium makes amazing hypocrits who often feel the need to expound on their expertise and everyone elses failures no matter what he subject. my ignore list is littered with them.

 

[stilldivin]

I've been diving since 1975 and I'm 62 years old, and have gone on over 500 dives. My "basic" open water C card included CPR, first aid and rescue diving back then. Man have times changed. The advice I have for new divers is the same for "old" divers. (I attended a DAN seminar at the Santa Clara convention center last month about dive accidents and their causes. I was a video presenter for the San Jose flipper Dippers right after the DAN seminar.) Some important tips; old tip- plan your dive and dive your plan. Review hand signals. Know how to release your buddies weight belt and practice doing so. Have your regulator, tank AND BC serviced every year. Check all equipment before leaving home and again before entering the water. Know where your buddies octo regulator is and know how to use it. And the most abused rule; try to dive SIDE BY SIDE. I know this can be difficult, but if you are in front or behind your buddy and get into trouble, by the time he or she finds out you need help, it's too late. Never dive if you feel uncomfortable by the conditions and don't be embarrassed to say so. Don't push your limits and get too tired; you use more air on the return trip than going out. I normally turn around when the first diver in our group hits half their air. If you get cold, let your buddy know and call the dive. Of course all the rules you learned in class apply; never hold your breath, ascend as slow as the smallest bubbles and as the dive computer tells you to do. Make a safety stop.
I could go on and on, but you get the general idea. Diving can be really fun and safe, but like driving, you need to pay attention. I hope they don't invent a waterproof I- phone. I could just see divers texting! (I know, I'm old.) Have fun!

 

[finbob]

Cosmographer: Good article, you balance both sides well.

I recall some terrifying dives - my 12th & 13th. Both dives were on a one-to-one with a DM.
Unfortunately, I did not have the confidence nor ability to challenge the DM and surface by myself.
In fact, it took me around 30-dives to even get my buoyancy sorted out to confidently do a 3-min stop.

Yeah, with some 180 dives under my weight belt the 12 & 13 nightmares would not have taken place. But then
again in a strange ocean, fumbling around with new gear, trusting in an experienced diver (DM), the
nightmares did take place. When I shared dive 13 (dare not share dive 12) with the SB the response was very inconsistent.
One group was encouraging, the other blaming. I guess we are all inconsistent in some ways, right?

 

[Go Pro IDC]

If you are paying for the services of a Divemaster/Guide then you are quite within your rights to ask questions. As an Employee and seasoned Pro i encourage guests to question staff if they believe they are doing anything outside of what is considered normal protocol. I must admit we have never had any problems and i believe the secret to this is having staff/guides that are both approachable and have a passion for what they do. My staff would love to sit all day long and talk diving, unfortunately for them someone has to fill tanks. When a Guide/Instructor no longer excepts Divers for who they are i would suggest that it is time to find a new career. One would assume that as a new diver you would encounter more problems than that of someone who has 100+ dives, this is simply not true. From experience i personally know someone who has got 45,000+ dives, yip thats right 45,000+ dives and when on a dive with someone i recently taught, my new diver put them to shame.

Top tip for any diver would be to seek the services of a reputable diving operation, yes you pay a liitle bit more money but it will be worth the extra. Any good dive operation listens to their guests after all you are paying the bills.

If you pay peanuts you get monkeys, if you pay next to nothing for the services of a guide i' am sure you will get next to nothing in return.

Diving is fun and when shared with fellow divers, guides and Instructors with a passion and respect for diving becomes a lot more fun.

Happy bubbling.