ajduplessis
Contributor
Since I added an Argon sticker to my ds bottle I feel a lot warmer even though it's filled with air.
Argon--pro and con
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WolfPackDiver
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The goal of my experiment is to test real-world usage. The navy experiment flushed the suits six times before immersion; not a likely real-world scenario. Maybe once is more like it. My plan is to allow water pressure to empty as much air as possible before immersion, then replace with auto-fill from my argon cylinder. Maybe will flush once with the argon. Undecided so far.
TSandM: I agree that it would be great to have a core temperature reading. If you know of an inexpensive instrument that has a digital or analog output, I'll consider it. I've read dozens of posts where people make general statements such as "may," "might," etc. I want to gather some decent scientific data that will start to answer questions from a real-world, joe-diver, perspective. Such as, "how much does skin temperature decrease during a dive to xx ft. for xx minutes using argon." And, "how much does skin temperature decrease during a dive to xx ft. for xx minutes using air." I'll monitor water temp/depth/duration with my dive computer. If there is no difference, we've learned. If there is a difference, we've also learned.
All suggestions welcome (though I reserve the right to wholly ignore!) Thanks.
TSandM: I agree that it would be great to have a core temperature reading. If you know of an inexpensive instrument that has a digital or analog output, I'll consider it. I've read dozens of posts where people make general statements such as "may," "might," etc. I want to gather some decent scientific data that will start to answer questions from a real-world, joe-diver, perspective. Such as, "how much does skin temperature decrease during a dive to xx ft. for xx minutes using argon." And, "how much does skin temperature decrease during a dive to xx ft. for xx minutes using air." I'll monitor water temp/depth/duration with my dive computer. If there is no difference, we've learned. If there is a difference, we've also learned.
All suggestions welcome (though I reserve the right to wholly ignore!) Thanks.
PfcAJ
Contributor
Here's the thing, who does extended duration dives at 30ft? If you flush 'all' (not really all) the air out of a suit by just getting in, drop to 30ft and replace the volume with argon, you *might* have 50% argon inside (probably not). The deeper you drop the higher %. If you dive to 10 ata, the non-argon % is probably negligible (and similar to flushing multiple times at the surface preceding a shallow dive).
Drawing meaningful conclusions from you proposed experiment has a lot of problems associated with it. Core temp measurement is a biggie, as is the efficacy of argon vs air over time (which is what I'm mostly concerned with), undergarment choice, sweat and condensation in the suit, the subjects core temp difference from day 1 to day 2 (is it a significant difference, how will you know with such few trials?). Drawing any conclusions from a single trial is almost impossible with regards to human physiology.
Drawing meaningful conclusions from you proposed experiment has a lot of problems associated with it. Core temp measurement is a biggie, as is the efficacy of argon vs air over time (which is what I'm mostly concerned with), undergarment choice, sweat and condensation in the suit, the subjects core temp difference from day 1 to day 2 (is it a significant difference, how will you know with such few trials?). Drawing any conclusions from a single trial is almost impossible with regards to human physiology.
There are capsules you can swallow which will transmit your core temperature to an external device as it passes through your digestive tract. If you can source that sort of equipment, it would seem to fit the bill. (as long as the receiver can be placed under a dry suit)
Although perhaps one of the doctors can comment on whether or not different stages of the digestive tract may read different temperatures, or if they would read the same - I don't know.
Sent from my SGH-I897 using Tapatalk
Although perhaps one of the doctors can comment on whether or not different stages of the digestive tract may read different temperatures, or if they would read the same - I don't know.
Sent from my SGH-I897 using Tapatalk
WolfPackDiver
Registered
PfcAJ, thanks for your comments. I've done quite a bit of diving in the mid-west and many divers there use Argon for regular dives (i.e. not "extended duration", but low water temperatures such as under ice). I would suggest the bulk of the argon consumption (for diving) isn't used at 10ata or extended dives (haven't seen any data, though, maybe I'm mistaken?).
I was concerned about core-temp recovery as well and I've spoken with several physicians who all swear core temperature should recover within the 24 hours after ice diving for the next day's trials. Also, I would love to have a huge study with lots of divers, lots of dives, lots of data. If someone is willing to sponser that, great! I'm doing what I can, with my personal resources to help advance the state of diving knowledge by attempting to scientifically collect data of controlled (as much as possible) experiments. I would contend that several small trials with data are better than no data at all.
Roko: Interesting idea. I'll look around and see what's available. Thanks.
I was concerned about core-temp recovery as well and I've spoken with several physicians who all swear core temperature should recover within the 24 hours after ice diving for the next day's trials. Also, I would love to have a huge study with lots of divers, lots of dives, lots of data. If someone is willing to sponser that, great! I'm doing what I can, with my personal resources to help advance the state of diving knowledge by attempting to scientifically collect data of controlled (as much as possible) experiments. I would contend that several small trials with data are better than no data at all.
Roko: Interesting idea. I'll look around and see what's available. Thanks.
WolfPackDiver
Registered
Roko: Follow up. I found one online for $77. Transmit time is 12-48 hours, so at the low end, I'd need one per day of diving. A little expensive for my budget. Anyone want to donate to the cause?
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