Are you fit to dive?

[Wayward Son]

Was your PADI course a 2 week deal? I took the same class with my wife as a refresher, and it was. You borrowed a set of videos that basically presented what was in the book, and took those & the book home. Read the book, watch the tapes. Do the questions at the end of each session in the book. Presto, you have "trained" yourself.

Then there was 2 evening in a classroom with an instructor (since been reduced to a single evening) culminating in a 50 question exam (I think my old NAUI test was 100 questions, not sure of that). Then in the pool for 2, maybe 3 evenings, and OW checkout dives followed.

She couldn't do it. The bookwork was no problem, the water skills were. She eventually did finish, though we changed instructors, as her 1st one had a bit of an attitude about her and did everything he could to encourage her. To drop out, not finish, and not dive.

She did complete the water skills (spendidly, BTW) with a different instructor, got certified & is becoming quite a good diver, is enjoying the hell out of it.

But I did get a full comparison. I did 3 NAUI OW courses, one each year from 73 to 75. I was too young to get legally certified, we were on an Air Force base in Turkey & the base dive club agreed that if I could pass, they'd let me dive with them. So each year I'd take the course just for something to do (cost me $20) & bc I was an absolute nut about diving.

I then took a PADI course here in the states in 1978 & was issued a C card from NASDS bc the shop changed affiliation before we finished the course. It was similar, took us 6 or 8 weeks, similar swim test, water skills, as the older NAUI, though I do think the class work was not as complete.

Now the current PADI. What a change. I will say that for people very comfortable in the water, who can complete it in 2 weeks, it's a very handy thing. From what I saw over a 6 month period, it looked to me that they had a very high percentage of people who did not complete in 2 weeks, came back & took another class. Doing this multiple times seems common, my wife did 3 times, as did 50% of the ones in her 1st class. I may be wrong, but I gained the impression that a high failure rate is common (meaning they don't finish in the 2 week schedule, not that they never finish), so I wonder at the true benefit of rushing this, rather than just staying with the older, longer format. More inconveniant, sure, but I don't recall seeing anyone fail to complete OW dives at the end of one of those classes, either, and they produced good divers.

I don't know if all PADI OW courses take this 2 week approach, or if some still follow the old format. I do know that I am not impressed with the 2 week approach.

 

[Rec Diver]

Didn't a well fit instructor die in a swimming pool a couple of months ago? Wasn't the instructor over 6 feet tall and diving in 4 feet of water? All he had to do was stand up. Your ability to perform in any recreational sport is a matter of ones own preference. Scuba diving has changed over the last twenty years. It has transformed from the techincal ego's to the recreational family member. Lets not take an isolated case and assume it is the norm.

 

[Potapko]

I think it comes down to the same tired argument. Whose responsibility is my/your safety? You cannot protect people from themselves. The testing shows a minimum comfort level in the water.

So, even as a buddy I need to be careful whose life I take responsibility for.

Someone once said
"don't dive with strokes"

Define "stroke" any way you like, then avoid those divers. I would include the unfit person in that list.

 

[Blackwood]

Actually, when you get your license they are concerned with more than your driving skills - you have to be able to see too, they give eye tests. That actually seems a bit similar to diving and making sure you can swim. And before someone says using glasses is like using dive gear, it's unlikely you will ever ditch your glasses.

Yes, you have to be able to see to drive. But I wouldn't parallel that to being able to swim to dive. I'd parallel that to being able to see to dive. The logical parallel between swimming is walking. They are methods of self propulsion you can use if necessary.

 

[ChillyWaters]

ChillyWaters - Great, so you won't sink... but if you find yourself bobbing in the sea a mile away from the shore with the tide dragging you further out, your 14mm of Neoprene is going to swim you back to shore? If thats the case, then please tell me where to buy that suit, 'cos I sure as hell want one

Yeah, but since buoyancy is achieved, swimming just got a lot easier. Plus, I bet you don't do the same swimming technique as a result, plus the fact that you have massive fins on. This is more about general conditioning than being a great swimmer.

- ChillyWaters

 

[ChillyWaters]

So I guess you never plan on diving in a warm climate, or you'll wear your 7mil when you do?

I said I wear 7-mil, not everybody wears 7-mil, thus qualifying my statement by implying a regional perspective.

Since we have a lot of currents here, does that mean that tropical divers, without current, should have to learn all aspects of current?? Different regions pose different challenges, and imposing suggestions such that "all divers must be able to xxxxx because they might travel to a part of the world requiring it," is ludicrous.

I'm simply saying that I don't think that tougher swimming standards would help out divers here much.

- ChillyWaters

 

[Damselfish]

Tropical divers don't have currents? I bet that's a surprise to the folks in Coz, or Palau, or lots of tropical places. Heck, I got caught in a surprise screaming current in Curacao once. (I'm pretty sure currents were covered in theory in my OW or AOW classes, and like many things you learn about the local issues from locals, DMs, etc. as you go along. And hopefully you don't do everything new at once or start with the worst case. But they just can't tell you on the boat "in theory" how to swim.)

I'm not saying everyone has to know everything and of course there are regional differences. But some things like swimming seem too fundamental to me. I don't know if making swimming standards harder would help much, but I think having no swimming standards would be a huge mistake. And I have trouble buying any of the arguments I've heard why swimming is unimportant for diving, including any that it doesn't matter because someones gear will make it easier, as gear is never a sure thing. I'm not saying everyone has to be like Mark Spitz. (Hope you don't lose those massive fins when things go south and you have to swim.

 

[ChillyWaters]

Tropical divers don't have currents?

I never said that. I said "tropical divers, without current, ... ". As in, there are plenty of people who dive 0 current tropical destinatinos. I was actually first certified at the Great Barrier Reef with 0 current.

That isn't to say we didn't have current, as my first non-cert dive was a fast drift dive where I sucked my air back soooo fast -- they didn't warn me it would be a drift.

But some things like swimming seem too fundamental to me. I don't know if making swimming standards harder would help much, but I think having no swimming standards would be a huge mistake.

But we already DO have standards (at least PADI does).

(Hope you don't lose those massive fins when things go south and you have to swim.

Again, swimming with buoyance already established (with thick wetsuit), is a lot easier than swimming in a pool, as is implied by tougher swim tests. I mentioned that swim tests may be good to prove comfort in water. However, stronger swim tests, at least for as cold water folks, wouldn't do much, IMHO.

- ChillyWaters