Are you all just technical? What is technical?

[chrpai]

I undertand the gear vs training argument but sometimes I think it's taken a little too extreme. In this case the gear is virtually identical except color. If the color gives you a couple extra feet of vis, why not do it? I'm not saying that should then allow you to have bad buddy skills and be a couple feet further but hey, it couldn't hurt.

I've had some really bad vis in Lake Travis where it gets hard to see my buddy. It's taught me to stay close but sometimes you can still lose someone momentarily.

 

[DevonDiver]

Let's be honest: if this had been a complaint directed at a BP/W, wouldn't that 'highly inflated' part be immediately pointed at, and then used at the excuse to not ever blame the gear?

Not really, the buoyancy cell distribution on a jacket BCD typically provides minimal capacity 'up high' (back and shoulders), but high capacity 'down low' around the torso.

Without a crotch strap, or effective fit, the user has a tendency to 'sink' within the BCD.

Divers doing the 'armpit hang'...




Same problem underwater:



Let's not pretend this doesn't exist. It's just become the 'norm' and is consequently 'accepted'.

When you watch a novice diver flailing and wallowing in the water (surface and submerged) just look at what's happening with their BCD. Then watch a BP&W diver... even a novice...

 

[nimoh]

Not really, the buoyancy cell distribution on a jacket BCD typically provides minimal capacity 'up high' (back and shoulders), but high capacity 'down low' around the torso.

Without a crotch strap, or effective fit, the user has a tendency to 'sink' within the BCD.

Divers doing the 'armpit hang'...

View attachment 130692View attachment 130693View attachment 130695


Same problem underwater:

View attachment 130696View attachment 130697

Let's not pretend this doesn't exist. It's just become the 'norm' and is consequently 'accepted'.

When you watch a novice diver flailing and wallowing in the water (surface and submerged) just look at what's happening with their BCD. Then watch a BP&W diver... even a novice...

It is even worse if the weight is on a weight belt on the diver, pulling them down and is somewhat alleviated by integrated weights in a jacket, but the crotch strap of a BP/W actually solves the problem.

 

[Paladin]

Hmm. This discussion has got me to thinking. I have crotch straps on both my old campacs and for the same reasons mentioned concerning BCs. Double hose regulators don't function well if they're too high on the back and a crotch strap helps keep it in the proper position. So, why couldn't a crotch strap be added to a jacket?

I checked the backpack on my Aeris EX100 and, guess what? It has slots that could be used to add a crotch strap. Just for the heck of it, I'm going to add a crotch strap to my Aeris and see if there is any improvement in useability. I'm going diving on Saturday and I'll let you know if it works.

 

[nimoh]

Hmm. This discussion has got me to thinking. I have crotch straps on both my old campacs and for the same reasons mentioned concerning BCs. Double hose regulators don't function well if they're too high on the back and a crotch strap helps keep it in the proper position. So, why couldn't a crotch strap be added to a jacket?

I checked the backpack on my Aeris EX100 and, guess what? It has slots that could be used to add a crotch strap. Just for the heck of it, I'm going to add a crotch strap to my Aeris and see if there is any improvement in useability. I'm going diving on Saturday and I'll let you know if it works.

come one now, the crotch strap is part of a BP/W, but if you put it on a jacket, it become and equipment solution to skills problem

I'm kidding! please don't flame me!

 

[mathauck0814]

come one now, the crotch strap is part of a BP/W, but if you put it on a jacket, it become and equipment solution to skills problem

I'm kidding! please don't flame me!

Technically it's an add-on to the BP/W as well (being not a part of the single, continuous piece of webbing and by virtue of its own specific slot in the plate). But it's like putting a spoiler on a used rice rocket junker. Just because you and the guy with the Porsche have something in common doesn't mean you've actually got something in common

 

[Paladin]

LOL The crotch strap predates the BP/W by decades. Mike Nelson used one on every dive!

Seriously, the crotch strap was developed because double hose regulators cannot function properly or breathe easily if they are not positioned between the diver's shoulder blades. Without a crotch strap to hold it in position, a diver could find his rig riding up with increased breathing resistance.

So, the designers of the BP/W actually stole the idea from us old f***s.

 

[mathauck0814]

Without a crotch strap to hold it in position, a diver could find his rig riding up with increased breathing resistance.

To say nothing of the comforting hug you get from your crotch strap each time you don your kit.

 

[nimoh]

Technically it's an add-on to the BP/W as well (being not a part of the single, continuous piece of webbing and by virtue of its own specific slot in the plate). But it's like putting a spoiler on a used rice rocket junker. Just because you and the guy with the Porsche have something in common doesn't mean you've actually got something in common

to be clear I was trying to be funny, back referencing an earlier post, but as often happens my ISP seems to filter out my humour

 

[DukeAMO]

Why do people always resort to gear to attempt to solve training problems? If you are having trouble losing your buddy, you need better dive-buddy proceedures. If the vis is really that bad, even neon yellow or white only gives you a few more feet before it too disapears.

It's not so much that the vis is so bad. What's happened several times in classes is that everyone is wearing nearly identical black gear, full wetsuits, hoods, and a bunch of people even have the blue Mares Quattro fins. My husband can be right next to me in a group of 6 divers and I can't tell which one he is. Since I check for him once every minute or two, if it takes me a minute to figure out which one he is it doesn't make for a fun dive.