Are weight belts dangerous?

[arman68]

Over the BSAC forum, there is a very interesting discussion, started earlier this year, about the poor design of quick release weight belt systems, and how many accidents have been caused by losing belts. I think the important points are very intelligently addressed in this post from their forum member Thalassamania:

Might I share some ideas from the scientific diving community or the USA as regards weights and such.

Problems:

1) The conventional “airplane” type weight belt buckle”:

a) (especially when made from plastic) is, IMHO, an accident waiting to happen. Failures of this type of buckle are frequent enough that I, and many other Diving Safety Officers, have prohibited the use of this style buckle on a weightbelt.

b) requires a tread-through to don which can be difficult, at best, with gloves.

c) requires a tread-through to ditch, has often been seen to result in the belt hung up on some piece of gear, rather than beiung cleanly ditched, esp. with gloves.

d) requires being placed into a highly insecure mode whilst being adjusted for wet suit compression.

e) is easy to confuse with a buckle on a tank strap (conventional backpack or BP/W) and can not be differentiated solely by feel. The diver must trust to position of the body or rigorous application of a left hand release for the tank strap, right hand release for the weight belt protocol.


2) Integrated weight systems can place a diver in severe danger if, for any reason, he or she must remove the rig. If that occurs, the diver is positively buoyant and the divers gas supply is negative ly buoyant, a slip resulting in a loss of grip will, at best, result on a diver on the surface with his or her gas supply on the bottom and at worst ... well, think about being tangled in a net, having to remove your rig to untangle yourself, losing your grip on your rig and making a buoyant ascent into the net which is billowing over you.

Solutions:

1) There are two weight belt and buckle designs that solve the problems mentioned above:

a) Wire bail buckle with rubber belt. This is a great solution since the rubbber belt is self-compensating.

b) SeaQuest buckle and belt (as mentioned earlier). Originally developed by a Graduate Student at Scripps, named (if I recall properly) Mark Olson, who was also a fine machinist and who went on to found Deep Sea Power and Light. This belt was first marketed in the USA by SeaQuest and currently available here from Trident Diving Supply. It is a positive closing, cam actuated buckle that can tightened easily and securely, yet can be only be released with a motion of pulling it away from your body. It’s really quite simple, inexpensive, and very ingenious. It’s a bit hard to explain, but well worth trying.

I could not agree more with the comment above. What does this community think?

Also, although I prefer the freediving Marseille belt (ie: rubber belt with buckle), I think due to the difficulty of adjusting the weights, their place is for diving at home. For travelling though, I am now inclined to get one of those Seaquest buckle and belt. What do you do?

 

[Halthron]

I could not agree more with the comment above. What does this community think?

Thal is also here so he may comment but I disagree with two of the comments. Perhaps they're true from his perspective and experience but they aren't from mine.

e) is easy to confuse with a buckle on a tank strap

I agree that plastic buckles are a poor choice (all four on my BP/w are SS) but if I wear a weight belt it's really easy to tell the difference between it and the ones on the tanks. If I need to release the belt, I'm not fumbling around at the tank! So, I disagree that a weight belt clasp is easy to confuse with a buckle on a tank strap, two different locations. One's on my waist, one's on my back.

2) Integrated weight systems can place a diver in severe danger if, for any reason, he or she must remove the rig.

This comes down to training, comfort and environment. This can certainly be true in shallow water but it's less true the deeper you go. Once past 15 feet or so, I've never had a problem. Of course, it's best to find a place wheere the BC can rest on the ground while you're fiddling with it but if you're in open water the key is to stay deep enough so that the weight of the water makes it easier to keep you down and to put a bit of air in the BC to make it more buoyant. I've done gear removal and troubleshooting at 50 feet with another 30-40 feet of water below me without a problem.

 

[beejw]

Personally i think that this is a little bit doomsday-istic.

If for some reason you had to ditch gear with intergrated weights, it doesnt take much to hold onto it, considering your going to want to keep it in a position whereby you can keep your reg in your mouth. Also, if your diving with a buddy, which lets face, most people do, if your caught and you have some sort of underwater signaling device (bell, horn) and get there attnetion, they can help you cut free.

Weight belts dont use the "airplane" style buckle, the use a positive force friction fulcrum buckle. also, care must be taken when talking about plastic. plastics these days are a lot stronger then they used to be, and the plastic buckle certianly wouldnt be in use if it wasnt tested and didnt meet specific regulations and standards. this being said, a stainless steel buckle is probably still stronger and a better option.

some sort of anti-slip coating (like on babies socks) on the inside of the weight belt might be a suitable solution.

I dive everywhere with my seaquest pro qd. ive yet to encounter a situation whereby diving with IW makes it unsafe.

 

[Crawl79]

I especially hate plastic buckles on weight belts. On my first two OW dives I had weight belt unbuckle. Fist time at surface I lost on of my weights when my buckle came undone. I caught the belt but one weight dropped to the sand below. Second dive I was on bottom and my buckle came undone. Luckily I grabbed both ends before I shoot up and also my instructor was right there watching and was ready to grab me if needed. He watched and made sure I got it back on and for the next dives got me a better buckle and apologized for the buckle, although it might just have been my beginer mistakes.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

, and the plastic buckle certianly wouldnt be in use if it wasnt tested and didnt meet specific regulations and standards.

Where did you come up with this gem?

 

[johnnyseko]

I'm still wanting a rubber belt.... You could travel with it minus the weights and just add them at your destination.

I got an xs scuba pouch belt for traveling. Doesnt solve the problems you state, but I like it.

 

[DennisW]

All issues are solved with proper training and familiarization with your gear. I personally don't see a problem at all with weight belts. I do see a problem with proper training.

 

[RICHinNC]

Well Dennis....all solved but the tummy problem.

 

[O2BBubbleFree]

In my limited experience...

My 'classic' BC has a plastic buckle, as does my weight belt. Not much chance of confusing the two because the belt coming off of my backpack is around my stomach while the weight belt is lower, around my hips. Plus the buckles have the opposite orientation to make it easier to keep 'em straight. My 'modern' BC (Ranger) has a fastex-type buckle, as do most BCs I've seen, so confusing the buckles is not an issue.

WRT plastic v. ss, I agree that modern plastics are tough. Buckles slipping, or coming off completly, is either a design issue or a user issue (shouldn't come off it threaded correctly) and not a material issue.

If your lead weights or soft weight pockets can slide off of the free end of the belt, use weight keepers for pete's sake.

WRT self-adjusting (rubber) weight belts, my old nylon belt has a big o-ring in the back that stretches when you put the belt on, then relaxes as necessary to keep the belt tight when the neoprene crushes. It's a simple, cheap, and secure.

I got an xs scuba pouch belt for traveling. Doesnt solve the problems you state, but I like it.

If the pouches are removable, you could add the o-ring I mentioned, and solve the problem. Let me know if you want details.

 

[Thalassamania]

Thank you Arman68. I’m glad that you found my BSAC post useful enough to warrant replicating it here. I’ll try and answer, from my perspective and experience, some of the questions raised here.

e) is easy to confuse with a buckle on a tank strap
I agree that plastic buckles are a poor choice (all four on my BP/w are SS) but if I wear a weight belt it's really easy to tell the difference between it and the ones on the tanks. If I need to release the belt, I'm not fumbling around at the tank! So, I disagree that a weight belt clasp is easy to confuse with a buckle on a tank strap, two different locations. One's on my waist, one's on my back.

We’re talking about the waist strap of the harness (not the tank strap on your back) being potentially confused, esp. when where mitts, with the weight belt buckle.

2) Integrated weight systems can place a diver in severe danger if, for any reason, he or she must remove the rig.
This comes down to training, comfort and environment. This can certainly be true in shallow water but it's less true the deeper you go. Once past 15 feet or so, I've never had a problem. Of course, it's best to find a place where the BC can rest on the ground while you're fiddling with it but if you're in open water the key is to stay deep enough so that the weight of the water makes it easier to keep you down and to put a bit of air in the BC to make it more buoyant. I've done gear removal and troubleshooting at 50 feet with another 30-40 feet of water below me without a problem.

Everything comes down to “training,” and I’ll address that later. As far as environment is concerned, what you are saying is true with a 3 mil wetsuit made with most neoprene, but is most definitely not true with a 7 mil suit made of Rubetex or with a dry suit. As I will point out later, even if you use a thin suit, you can not always schedule your emergencies for shallow water, to whit:
In 1985 I was diving with three recently authorized research divers at a location where there is a large permanent gill net that all divers had been instructed to stay well clear of. We were diving as two separate buddy pairs. My buddy and I had completed our dive and were returning to shore on the surface when one member of the other team surfaced alone, near the net. I asked him were his buddy was and he said he did not know, that was why he surfaced. I looked around for bubbles and saw some coming up not far away. I told my buddy and the other diver to follow me and dove down on the bubbles. I found the "missing" diver tangled in the net, struggling to get free. She had gotten into the net as she tried to surface since the current had bowed the top of the net over her. She had first taken out her knife to cut herself free but had dropped it, and it was now out of reach on the bottom. She had then tried to take off her tank and had somehow managed to wind her intermediate pressure hose around her neck and was now badly fouled in the net. I signaled the two divers with me to buddy-up and stay clear. I approached the fouled diver, got her attention, and had her shift from her regulator to my octopus. I helped her to complete the removal of her tank and we surfaced together, leaving her tank in the net. After settling her down, my buddy and I submerged and recovered her tank from the net and her knife from the bottom. Had she been wearing an integrated weight system this would have been much more difficult to deal with.

Personally i think that this is a little bit doomsday-istic.
If for some reason you had to ditch gear with integrated weights, it doesn’t take much to hold onto it, considering your going to want to keep it in a position whereby you can keep your reg in your mouth. Also, if your diving with a buddy, which lets face, most people do, if your caught and you have some sort of underwater signaling device (bell, horn) and get there attention, they can help you cut free.
Weight belts don’t use the "airplane" style buckle, the use a positive force friction fulcrum buckle. Also, care must be taken when talking about plastic. Plastics these days are a lot stronger then they used to be, and the plastic buckle certainly wouldn’t be in use if it wasn’t tested and didn’t meet specific regulations and standards. This being said, a stainless steel buckle is probably still stronger and a better option.
Some sort of anti-slip coating (like on babies socks) on the inside of the weight belt might be a suitable solution.
I dive everywhere with my Seaquest Pro GD. I’ve yet to encounter a situation whereby diving with IW makes it unsafe.

There is no specification (at least in the U.S.A., I know the E.U. has a lot of DIN this and ISO that) for weight belt buckles, no regulations, no standards, no tests. The term “airplane type” is a bit of a misnomer; it refers to a lightweight version of what used to be used in airplanes and no longer is. Perhaps we should change the terminology to keep up with the times. There are several problems with the thread-thru “force friction fulcrum buckle:”
1. To remove the belt, the tongue of the belt must be cleanly slid out of the buckle, it is possible for the tongue to foul and get caught.
2. It is difficult to “flip” the buckle open and pull the belt away from the body with one hand so as to assure that it cleanly ditched.
3. Almost all thread-thru designs (esp. plastic but even SS) are very weak at the pivot point of the belt latch. I’ve seen more than a few fail by coming apart.

All issues are solved with proper training and familiarization with your gear. I personally don't see a problem at all with weight belts. I do see a problem with proper training.

You are right, but the degree of training required to have a diver prepared at all time for a weight belt buckle to self-destruct is, in my opinion, excessive and better spent on other issues.

In my limited experience...
My 'classic' BC has a plastic buckle, as does my weight belt. Not much chance of confusing the two because the belt coming off of my backpack is around my stomach while the weight belt is lower, around my hips. Plus the buckles have the opposite orientation to make it easier to keep 'em straight. My 'modern' BC (Ranger) has a fastex-type buckle, as do most BCs I've seen, so confusing the buckles is not an issue.
WRT plastic v. ss, I agree that modern plastics are tough. Buckles slipping, or coming off completely, is either a design issue or a user issue (shouldn't come off it threaded correctly) and not a material issue.
If your lead weights or soft weight pockets can slide off of the free end of the belt, use weight keepers for pete's sake.
WRT self-adjusting (rubber) weight belts, my old nylon belt has a big o-ring in the back that stretches when you put the belt on, then relaxes as necessary to keep the belt tight when the neoprene crushes. It's a simple, cheap, and secure.

This is fine if you religiously put your belt on either left or right handed, something that is not always practical. The issue is not the buckle coming off of the belt (though that can happen if improperly installed), it is the closure lever coming out of the body of the buckle as a result of wear, damage or poor initial construction.
I too have a belt with the “o-ring” compensator (and for that matter a spring loaded buckle that helps tightensit even more) but that doesn’t seem to work as well as the rubber belt.
As far as keepers are concerned you are, of course, correct.