Are we diving or swimming?

[Diver0001]

Does anyone have any comments or justifications why it is still in the training manuals or does it just keep slipping through because it has always been done that way and agencies don't want to move with the times(heaven forbid!).

I think it's important on all fronts to continually ask the question if it's necessary or not or if it's a 5 monkeys thing.

My first impulse would be to answer your question with another question. If your child were engaged in a water sport do you think they should be able to swim?

To me it's a red-flag issue when people come to lessons and they can't already swim. If someone has so little affinity for being around water then why would they want to learn how to scuba dive?

R..

 

[Pinecube]

Is that different from the idea that a prospective diver should have some level of physical fitness, as mentioned earlier in the thread?

I would say so yes. You can be physically fit and still push yourself too hard.

 

[Nemrod]

A question I have often heard asked but have never heard a definitive answer to is why all dive training organisations require that you must be able to swim a certain distance within a set time and why the distance is increased and the time reduced as you progress through the "ranks" of scuba professionals.

I understood that it started in the distant past with YMCA, one of the original SCUBA training agencies, that had its origins in teaching young men to swim and therefore swimming, being seen as good discipline for young men was included in the training requirements. This was in the 50's and 60's, this is now 2015 and in over 30 years scuba diving I have never seen or needed to swim at any time on a dive trip unless I wanted to pass the time during a surface interval.

Does anyone have any comments or justifications why it is still in the training manuals or does it just keep slipping through because it has always been done that way and agencies don't want to move with the times(heaven forbid!).

The requirement, minimal as it is (and it is minimal), is there because you need to know how to swim. You can think otherwise until the day you need to. Seriously, you are going to jump in the ocean and cannot swim a lick and have such low fitness that you could not stay afloat with a poodle jacket even for a few minutes nor put the effort in to learn? Really?

This board goes on and on about safety, seems like being able to swim would be number one.

N

 

[NAM001]

I dont know wht the basis is for the degree of swimming required. When i took the Owd class (in the day) we had to do like an hour swim. we had no bcd's only a wet suit to dive with. Wet suits were optional as diving went. The horse collar was not a guarenteed, work every time device. If you were on the surface you had to swim to and from your entry point. if you had to tow someone to the entry point you had to know how to swim to do it. As time passed the swimming requirement or extent of.. decreased. It did so with the use of BCD's. you no longer had the threat of having to tread water for an unknown time. now you only have to inflate your bcd or wing. minimal propulsion was all you need. But it is still needed. It decreased even more when it was accepted that it was unreasonable to think in the event of a problem and you shed your gear you would be without fins. so now instead of swimming with NO gear for a mile or what ever you now do 50-100 yards with fins and mask. Even rescue classes I have attended say no mask and fins no get in the water to rescue anyone. 2 victoms are not better than 1. As far as I know that may have even changed some. Face it when you go on a boat and the boat protocol says remove your gear in the water and hand it to the crew to get it on board you have to swim it to the boat to a position that they can reach. I know it would make me pause to think that no one on the boat or shore could swim to get me if i cramped or had a medical problem and had to leave me to the currents because they could not swim. Isnt that like being an EMT but cant drive???

And then what if you or someone else fell overboard. boat rolls and loss of ballance can always happen. I would not get into the water with someone that could not swim...

 

[boulderjohn]

I do believe divers need to be able to swim, but let's be accurate.

so now instead of swimming with NO gear for a mile or what ever you now do 50-100 yards with fins and mask.

The RSTC standards call for a 200 yard swim with no equipment or a 300 yard swim with mask, fins, and snorkel. Some instructors never do the 300 yard swim with gear. Others always do the 300 yard swim with gear because it is a teaching exercise, an opportunity for divers unused to snorkels to get used to them, an opportunity to work on kicking technique.

Even rescue classes I have attended say no mask and fins no get in the water to rescue anyone. 2 victoms are not better than 1.

Rescue divers are taught to take the time to put on that gear because the time it takes to put it on is more than made up for by the greater speed in the water when using that gear.

Face it when you go on a boat and the boat protocol says remove your gear in the water and hand it to the crew to get it on board you have to swim it to the boat to a position that they can reach.

I have never seen a situation in which divers are required to take gear off some distance from the boat and then swim it over to the boat. Wherever I have done it, I have always been in physical contact with some extension of the boat, usually a line of some sort.

 

[jaycanwk]

Pfft! Kids these days! In my day we had to fill our tanks by hand with a bicycle tire pump, then descend to the wreck/reef uphill both ways against tidal currents and we liked it that way!!

Get off my lawn

 

[NAM001]

The details are no where near the inportance of the big picture. Divers are no longer dependant on swimming ability for survival because of advances in gear (BCD) for floatation. any swimming ability is for propulsion and not keeping on top of the surface. Proceedures requireing getting in the water include mask and fins so you are not really having to swim for 2. And yes the boat thing is a seldom thing, I have had to do it. and there is a line however you need to swim a little incase you loose the line or you are at the final 5 feet or so between the line and the boat stairs. I have in the past year watched 2 classes and have spoken to many new divers that say they do not do a swim at all. Apparently the instructors do not consider it inportant. If you ake it through the lpool session its good enough...Standards and application are often diferent things. My point was that in usta year, to do a rescue or surface swim to an area it was done without any lift device other than the wet suit which did not provide much with a tank on. To surface in the wrong area ment a surface transit. bcd's make this a non effort event. todays fins make the propulsion easy. Heck in my class we had to tread water for 15 minutes or so and that isnt done any more either. So my bottom line is that swimming is not the vital skill it once was but no so uninportant that is should be a non requirement.

I do believe divers need to be able to swim, but let's be accurate.The RSTC standards call for a 200 yard swim with no equipment or a 300 yard swim with mask, fins, and snorkel. Some instructors never do the 300 yard swim with gear. Others always do the 300 yard swim with gear because it is a teaching exercise, an opportunity for divers unused to snorkels to get used to them, an opportunity to work on kicking technique.

Rescue divers are taught to take the time to put on that gear because the time it takes to put it on is more than made up for by the greater speed in the water when using that gear.I have never seen a situation in which divers are required to take gear off some distance from the boat and then swim it over to the boat. Wherever I have done it, I have always been in physical contact with some extension of the boat, usually a line of some sort.

 

[Akimbo]

“Are we diving or swimming?”

Diving is swimming, unless you are frozen to the anchor line or maybe this guy. The problem with Scuba divers that can't swim is they are far more likely to panic when their fin strap breaks or most anything else goes wonky.

 

[TMHeimer]

A lot of good posts while I was away--especially Jim's & John's. But you know I disagree that "Diving is swimming". Years ago I was on HS swim team. Lately a diver. Two almost entirely different things though your crazy to dive without knowing how to swim.

 

[drbill]

Personally I'm glad I started diving back in the days when I was a competitive swimmer. After 52 years I'm not so sure I could pass a timed swim test (everything gets slower as you "mature..." well, except time itself).

I think reasonable swimming ability should be required for certification. As many have pointed out it suggests a level of comfort in the water that I feel is important. I've seen too many OW students who were obviously not comfortable being in the water and panicked. Surface swims are not uncommon either on shore dives with long swim outs (and, hopefully, ins) to reasonable dive depths or to and from dive boats. Although not a 100% effective test for physical fitness, if a student is struggling to finish a swim test, gasping for air or exhausted, then I would not feel comfortable certifying them to dive dive to potential risks associated with poor fitness.

Good thing I have lovely lady-go-divers to carry me to the dive site and tow me out to the dive spot (in my dreams).