are all agencies created equal?

[karstdvr]

But what's the difference?.

There is a lot of difference,and this can be something to pinpoint.

The older agencies are well established,and recognized,some of the newer agencies can have difficulty being acknowledged after training. For example,there are cases of cards not being accepted universally worldwide. Diepolder has written they only accept CDS and NACD cards,and this may have changed. I know of a person presenting a card at another site for an agency that was new,and they got rejected-because there are fake cards and invented agencies out there,thanks to desk top publishing.

My personal issue is how a particular agency makes their instructors. This may be one reason you may see quality instruction with ABC,but not XYZ. Some agencies require internship and peer review at an institute,others require a weekend with a course director. I am not saying the later is better than the former,but you have to decide.

I think the GUE model mentioned here is good,especially if you are a new diver,because their fundamentals class will make sure you are well prepared before advancing. All too often,people will show up with new gear they have never used,with the attitude of make me a cave diver-first we got to make you a diver. The only issue I have with GUE is their rigidity to a system that has minimal flexibility within the system.

When I started cave diving 20 years ago it was very simple CDS or NACD,but now it is very confusing,with even some marketing thrown in there to persuade to student to choose their route because we will let you do more at the basic levels. If I had to do it all over with what I know now,I would consider the fundmentals class because it would solve a lot of problems I had in the beginning. Then I would pick an agency for cave training that was well established with a long history,and find an instructor that was very active,and had been doing it for many years.

 

[kensuf]

When I finish my class, hopefully with Edd, what certification alphabet soup should I pick?

There's something you should consider. You're not buying a c-card, and with Edd you're definitely not guaranteed to get a c-card. You're buying training, and with Edd it will be solid training. And if he feels you're worthy, he will let you get a c-card after, but you will have to earn it.

In terms of what agency the c-card says on it, it doesn't really matter. It's the instructor and training that matter.

 

[TSandM]

There are several different things to think about when you are considering the effect of agency on your training.

One is that different agencies structure their classes differently, and the limits at each level are different. The standard sequence is Cavern, Intro (with or without a following Apprentice stage), and Cave. GUE and NAUI do it differently, with a Cave 1 and Cave 2 class. I actually like NAUI's Cave 1 limits, because they are set so that an infrequent cave tourist could take that class and probably be happy within those limits for an entire career (they allow one jump or T). I think most agencies have their stage classes set as an add-on after Full Cave, but GUE includes stages (and survey) in their Cave 2 class.

Another is that agencies differ in their prerequisites. GUE requires Fundamentals, so when you show up for a GUE cave class, you have a pretty shrewd idea what the ability level of your classmates is going to be, at least in terms of basic techniques. Cavern classes for other agencies don't require any open water training in technical-standard trim, buoyancy, or propulsion, so the people who present for those classes can range all over the map in preparation.

Another factor is that GUE won't permit a class with one student. This is a big difference, at least in my view. Working with a team of equally novice people shows you a lot more about the kinds of mistakes you can make while managing a cave dive. Diving just with an instructor, or even with already certified buddies, just doesn't give you the same experience. (I have taken both kinds of classes.)

GUE instructors are required to present for reevaluation, I believe every three years. This makes sure they stay on the same page, and also makes sure their own skills and fitness stay at the GUE standard for instructors. It's not a rubber stamp procedure, either. I don't think any of the other agencies requires this.

In the end, there will be wonderful teachers in every agency, and people who are not nearly as good at teaching. In addition, personality plays a bit role when you get into training that is this intense. It pays to do your homework and make sure the person from whom you are going to take a class not only enjoys a strong reputation, but is also someone you can work with. Not doing that can lead to an expensive and not very pleasant experience.

 

[randytay]

I just completed a UTD Cave 2 class. Very thorough and solid.

 

[drrich2]

GUE instructors are required to present for reevaluation, I believe every three years. This makes sure they stay on the same page, and also makes sure their own skills and fitness stay at the GUE standard for instructors. It's not a rubber stamp procedure, either. I don't think any of the other agencies requires this.

I question whether other agencies could. The impression I get from the forum, over the years, is that scuba instructing is not usually lucrative, and in some markets (e.g.: prized Caribbean island locations) can be subsistence living, if one can land the job there to begin with. If PADI, SSI and so on started raising standards to emulate a GUE approach for instructors (I'm told a number of Dive Masters basically work for tips & still have to pay for liability insurance, so I'll leave them out), I wonder whether the current scuba market structure/business model could handle the added hassles/demands?

Richard.