Aqualung Legend LX First Stage Failure at depth

[Diving Dubai]

Oh for heavens sake.

The ACD is fine. I have 4 Aqualung 1st stages with ACD's, all have done +300 dives, all get serviced by my LDS. All work perfectly.

Except...

I use DIN if someone disconnects the 1st without fully depressurising then sometime the ADC unwinds slightly (over a few tank changes). This means when you put on a new tank and open the valve there is a leak. All that is needed is a quick nip up with a hex key and all is fine.

The ACD is spring loaded so when connected to the tank it pushes backwards and opens the orifice for gas. When you disconnect it closes and protects the 1st stage.

If the ACD is incorrectly installed it's hardly the manufacturers fault

 

[Wookie]

You could well be correct.

A reliable service facility is still a very important part of the equation.

"Authorized" does not mean competent. It just means someone went through some short course at Dema or a Dive show.

Actually with AL, it's done online. All you need is a credit card to become a authorized technician....

 

[databob]

I bought the regulator in March 2012 and have about 250 dives on it. Always serviced at the recommended interval.

 

[halocline]

You could well be correct.

A reliable service facility is still a very important part of the equation.

"Authorized" does not mean competent. It just means someone went through some short course at Dema or a Dive show.

Exactly, I've been complaining about that issue for years. The problem for the average diver is that there is simply no way to know whether a local shop's tech is competent or not. This was a big factor for me in learning how to service my own regulators.

 

[databob]

This sounds more serious issue than the ACD closing mid-dive. All in all, it doesn't make sense to me at all.



What does this part mean? Did the second store check on the work of the first and found that they did everything properly? If valve and yoke nut came loose, how could they have known that the first dive shop torqued the parts to their proper specifications?

Was the second dive ship an authorized and trained Aqua Lung center?

Did you contact Aqua Lung at all? For something this serious that may merit a product recall, I would have gotten on the phone, email and even certified mail before I would have done anything else.

I think that there is more to the story and the incident than what we are reading above.

Yes. I did contact Aqualung on returning from the trip and after about a week they did not respond. Then I took the regulator to an authorized dealer/service center that was not the same as the one that had done the prior service. I wanted an explanation of what happened from a shop that had no prior involvement with the regulator. I explained the failure to the new shop and asked that in addition to repairing and servicing that they provide a written explanation of what went wrong. That is what I quoted in the post - copy/paste from the email - nothing more or nothing less. I can assure you - there is nothing more to the story. It is quite simple. Take a breath at 60 feet, no air. Get buddy's regulator. Try to purge my second stage - nothing. Try to purge my Octopus - nothing. Buddy checks my tank valve - fully open. No way to continue dive. Ascend to 20 feet for 3 min. Surface. Take gear back to boat and watch live aboard crew and 19 other experienced divers marvel at all of this. I will be happy to post the email from the authorized Aqualung dealer explaining what happened (sentence 1) and what they did to fix it (sentence 2). I have no intention of spending day after day running down Aqualung. If they do not care about a regulator failure sufficiently to contact me in a reasonable timeframe - so be it. I took it to an authorized dealer/service center - isn't that why they have authorized dealers and service centers? A regulator is a system. The system is the hardware and service personnel and manufacturing company. The system is only as good as the weakest link. You can draw your own conclusions on that. If you need a regulator with an ACD, by all means get one, have a ball, have a good buddy. Now you know the rest of the story.

 

[mdb]

Yes. I did contact Aqualung on returning from the trip and after about a week they did not respond. Then I took the regulator to an authorized dealer/service center that was not the same as the one that had done the prior service. I wanted an explanation of what happened from a shop that had no prior involvement with the regulator. I explained the failure to the new shop and asked that in addition to repairing and servicing that they provide a written explanation of what went wrong. That is what I quoted in the post - copy/paste from the email - nothing more or nothing less. I can assure you - there is nothing more to the story. It is quite simple. Take a breath at 60 feet, no air. Get buddy's regulator. Try to purge my second stage - nothing. Try to purge my Octopus - nothing. Buddy checks my tank valve - fully open. No way to continue dive. Ascend to 20 feet for 3 min. Surface. Take gear back to boat and watch live aboard crew and 19 other experienced divers marvel at all of this. I will be happy to post the email from the authorized Aqualung dealer explaining what happened (sentence 1) and what they did to fix it (sentence 2). I have no intention of spending day after day running down Aqualung. If they do not care about a regulator failure sufficiently to contact me in a reasonable timeframe - so be it. I took it to an authorized dealer/service center - isn't that why they have authorized dealers and service centers? A regulator is a system. The system is the hardware and service personnel and manufacturing company. The system is only as good as the weakest link. You can draw your own conclusions on that. If you need a regulator with an ACD, by all means get one, have a ball, have a good buddy. Now you know the rest of the story.

The biggest disappointment in all this is that Aqua-Lung did not directly respond.

Many reg companies-such as Atomic-are very prompt to respond, and will service their own products, often with a no charge for return shipping etc.

What this thread has done is to point out the importance of having equipment serviced by competent service technicians.

The word "authorized" does not always mean competent and experienced.

 

[halocline]

The ACD is spring loaded so when connected to the tank it pushes backwards and opens the orifice for gas. When you disconnect it closes and protects the 1st stage.

If the ACD is incorrectly installed it's hardly the manufacturers fault

A couple of points.

First, the ACD doesn't really solve any existing problem other than a diver's carelessness in replacing the dust cap. And I'm not sure that it even does a good job at that. If the ACD is still wet when the reg is disconnected from the tank, what stops that moisture from contaminating the filter? At least with a cap you can dry it off before installing it.

Second, a design which allows for a tech's incompetence to become dangerous will in fact be seen as the manufacturer's fault, because those techs are certified by the manufacturer. If you're going to tell your customers that you cannot allow them to buy parts and service the reg yourself due to safety concerns, then you must take responsibility for the actions of your certified techs. A somewhat analogous situation occurred with the early SP MK20 yoke retainers. Under excessive over-torquing they could weaken the body to the point where it would split open when pressurized. The only thing that caused this was tech incompetence in ignoring the manufacturer's torque spec and severely over tightening the yoke retainer. Yet SP was forced to re-design the yoke retainer and recall all the MK20s that it had sold.

I certainly admit that the aqualung ACD design, as I understand it, is not as bad as the oceanic one, which uses a spring loaded ball that opens and closes the first stage inlet with each breath. That one is really a dumb idea. This one, I had assumed, is designed so that the tank valve physically prevents the 1st stage closure when connected. Maybe I was wrong about that. It doesn't matter; from a design perspective it makes no sense whatsoever to introduce ANYTHING in the air path between the tank valve and the filter.

In any event, aqualung had a brilliant 1st stage design that stretches back to the aquamaster double hose several decades ago, continuing on (until recently) in the conshelf and the titan. This is probably the most successful 1st stage design in history, maybe along with the MK5. Why don't they simply continue with that design? There must be value in selling a regulator that has a 50 year track record. The answer, I strongly suspect, is because introducing new "features" allows the manufacturers to re-sell new products to existing customers.

There, I feel better after this long rant!

 

[Wookie]

It was a beautiful rant, too.

 

[redacted]

Look at it this way: For a very small risk of injury or death, you can almost insure you will not inadvertently allow water inside your first stage.

 

[Nemrod]

The ACD on the AL Legend absolutely does shut off the first stage from water. The valve is positively opened/off set when it is installed on the valve. It cannot be installed if the valve does not open. The valve will open when installed. I do not know what y'all are talking about. Please post photos of the faulty regulator and the faulty parts.

This reminds me of the Aussie guy and the Conshelf that allegedly shutoff due to a bent pin in the first stage which likely was an incorrect part installation if it happened at all and is as likely as a neutron burst ending all life.

I take this at face value, so let's see the regulator and failed parts.

N