Aqualung Legend LX First Stage Failure at depth

[Couv]

Cough, cough.

Exactly.

 

[jd950]

I'll try to get by and ask, but suspect I will be told something along the line that Aqualung doesn't allow him to provide me with that information. I am pretty sure also that if he did this modification, I would not be allowed to have the old parts back. I did not ask directly but got the distinct impression that not only was the valve modification not going to be a standard parts upgrade during a service, but that I probably couldn't even pay for the upgrade. Again, that is just my feeling, not something that was said.

Frankly, if this new valve part "fixes" the problem, I would go that route instead. Sometimes there is some small comfort in having the ACD feature when other people are handling the regs on dive boats and such.

While our dive shop guys may not be able to comment without placing their status at some risk with Aqualung, color me skeptical in the extreme if I'm supposed to believe that the ACD modification that Jack posted earlier
View attachment 487471
is not directly in response to this issue of the ACD shuttle valve loosening. Half of that statement above is definitely correct: it has everything to do with air flow.

I think we're getting closer, however, to a modification using Aqualung yoke retainers from other regulators that will allow owners to retrofit non-ACD capability to their Legends. It's not an authorized mod (yet), but initial indications are good. As noted above, $50 seems about right.

I'll be interested to hear what "official" suggestions come from Aqualung or their dealers, since we've still got only that one Service Bulletin that alludes to the problem, and now an assertion(?) that the shuttle valve mod above has nothing to do with keeping the hat of the shuttle away from the tank valve orifice in case of loosening. Cough, cough.

Pictures and part numbers to follow, if this mod pans out. Hey, @jd950 , maybe ask your shop guy exactly what parts he is going to use to change to non-ACD, and we'll see if it matches some other efforts underway. And how is he handling liability, since I've heard nothing from Aqualung about retrofitting a Legend to non-ACD?

 

[rsingler]

Frankly, if this new valve part "fixes" the problem, I would go that route instead. Sometimes there is some small comfort in having the ACD feature when other people are handling the regs on dive boats and such.

Yes, I get that completely.
I think our divers should have both options.
To me, it comes down to this:
1) the ACD with the new ridge on the shuttle valve "fixes" the problem of sudden air shutoff on those rare cases that combine,
a) a 6mm insert tank valve
b) unnoticed loosening of the shuttle valve (or inadequate torque by the shop at service).

So these guys will benefit by a quick switch-out of the shuttle valve to the redesigned part.
The fix should be less than $50 incl labor, unless a first stage service is added.

2) for those divers that are spooked by this sudden shutoff, as rare as it might be, they'd maybe like to get rid of the ACD feature. Or for those who want to go two or more years without service because their IP is stable, but are worried that the shuttle valve might loosen, retrofitting to a non-ACD version might make sense.

So we have a fix to #1, with the introduction of the ridged Shuttle Valve.
And we might be close to a fix for #2.
With Aqualung not promoting either, and acknowledging this rare problem only via that obscure Service Bulletin #38, I don't know if we're going to get official help.

For divers that want to keep their ACD, for me it's a slam-dunk that they should go in and ask for a new design shutter valve. The fix will take less than 15 min, one replacement part and three replacement orings.

For Legend divers that are interested in losing their ACD, stand by...

 

[reefrat]

This issue goes back to my recent post along with a lot of others about the misnomer ''top tier'' regulator sets...regulator servicing...and certification to service regulators...

A few things to remember...

*Reg service certification certificates are handed out like Halloween candy after ''attending'' a six hour course...
*A regulator with less parts is always better than a regulator with more parts...
*Most ''better mouse traps'' aren't better...
*Spending $1500/$1800 for a set of regulators doesn't necessarily get you a better set of regulators...
*Take a few Service Tech courses...know the value of having a simple IP test gauge in your tool box...
* Not enough can be said about Care...Pre and Post Dive Inspection and Checking...Thorough Post Dive Cleaning and Drying...
* Learn the importance of Stand Alone Bailout...and not the ""Spare Air'' type...but a bottle large enough to get you safely to the surface from what ever depth you are diving...which may or may not include mandatory ''stops''

This is the exact set of circumstances where the desire to take that harmless ''solo'' dive without the required training and redundant back-up could have had disastrous consequences...

In this case the diver did the right thing...the manufacturer should be advised of the shop that serviced the reg set...were they factory authorized...was the service tech factory certified...

Dive Safe...
Warren

Outstanding!
With the exception that I think a Spare Air is a viable bailout option for conservative NDL dives in the 40 to 80 ft range, for me anyway!

 

[rsingler]

This has been a really balanced thread discussing a rare and difficult problem. Might I ask whomever might be tempted, to not derail the thread into a Spare Air debate? Pretty please?

 

[Diving Dubai]

This has been a really balanced thread discussing a rare and difficult problem. Might I ask whomever might be tempted, to not derail the thread into a Spare Air debate? Pretty please?

Can I derail it by asking for someone to come up with a Mod to allow ACD on my DIN Apex XTX 50 1 stages?
If I could get a Turret 1st stage, with a 5th port and ACD, well I'd be in heaven

 

[rsingler]

Can I derail it by asking for someone to come up with a Mod to allow ACD on my DIN Apex XTX 50 1 stages?
If I could get a Turret 1st stage, with a 5th port and ACD, well I'd be in heaven

Let me take a look! I have some Apex regs to play with, though not an XTX50 yet. Maybe I can find a cheap one on eBay. Stay in touch, @Diving Dubai !

 

[rsingler]

Can I derail it by asking for someone to come up with a Mod to allow ACD on my DIN Apex XTX 50 1 stages?
If I could get a Turret 1st stage, with a 5th port and ACD, well I'd be in heaven

Well, here is an old style Legend in the center (with a retainer-mounted filter). On the right is an ATX200, and on the left is an older HOG which is vanishingly close to a TX50 with a 5-port turret.

All three have the same thread pitch and the same depth of the well in the reg body. My Aqualung ACD yoke retainer fits just fine in all three, so a DIN should as well, barring reg body shape issues.
If you'll confirm that like my Apeks manuals, the Apeks DIN version has the filter in the bolt, rather than the filter sitting in a recess in the reg body, I'll order an Aqualung ACD DIN bolt of the same type, and see if it fits.
@Diving Dubai , you might get your wish!
But please confirm for me first that the well in the reg body for the DIN bolt has a flat bottom (like the ATX on the right, rather than the Legend with recess on the left).

I don't want to derail this thread further, so if this works out, I'll start a new thread in DIY and put a link here. PM me with any questions and with what your reg body looks like.

 

[gcarter]

Not to derail, but...

Maybe it is just me, but as seconds could be paired with different 1sts, why refer to the 1st by the name of the second?

For example: I have ATX40s on a DS4 1st and TX50s on a DST 1st. I refer to my 1st stages as DST and DS4, not ATX40 or TX50.

Referring directly to the actual name of the 1st stage would be less confusing IMO, particularly when discussing parts lists and part swaps. Also given that the same 1st can be paired with different 2nds.

 

[JackD342]

Not to derail, but...

Maybe it is just me, but as seconds could be paired with different 1sts, why refer to the 1st by the name of the second?

For example: I have ATX40s on a DS4 1st and TX50s on a DST 1st. I refer to my 1st stages as DST and DS4, not ATX40 or TX50.

Referring directly to the actual name of the 1st stage would be less confusing IMO, particularly when discussing parts lists and part swaps. Also given that the same 1st can be paired with different 2nds.

You’re right that makes sense. Except that many manufacturers make it confusing and difficult to do so. Many sets are marketed and sold as a single model name, not a pair of names. Individual stages are often not labeled with the more specific names you suggest. Sometimes you need to be a bit “in the know” to make that distinction.