Apocalypse now

[Brad_Horn]

i hope thats not going to be your market campaign for this.........

Hi Mate,

It works fine for me as one....

But then again I am not connected to DL/OS or any of the other associated companies, I am just a little old diver that want's to go dive the Apoc & playing with the Co2 monitor when it's shipped {who also likes posting info about the Apoc when it fits in} - so if they ever get around to formally marketing the rig that's OpenSafeties business.

Regards
Brad

 

[spacemanspiff1974]

Hi.

I have a couple of questions about the unit. PPO2 monitoring is extra and comes with CO2 monitoring correct? Must I use the order the O2 monitoring cells from the specific company or could I use cells ordered from oxycheq that work for inspiration rebreathers?

Do you have a kiss type handheld manual O2 injector? Does the unit have the ability to plug in a 4th cell for use with my VR3?

(Haven't taken my rebreather class yet, but want to have all info possible on different types before sinking in the $$$).

 

[wedivebc]

Has anyone actually seen one of these units working? The CO2 on display at DEMA apparently had "battery" issues or something. I realize lots of orders have been taken but I have yet to even see a picture of a complete functional unit. Anyone care to enlighten me?

 

[almity1]

Very good calculation.
Now, try to do the same for example for Meg Copis, or rEVO or KISS etc...

Already did... Many years ago in order to make my choice.

The point made was that being made was the Apoc is less than $1000 US, when in reality this is not the case.

Great Marketing Ploy to suck you in, already I have my guard up..

Don't forget about special monitor features like full gas sensing, WOB monitoring, innovative ALBOV.

And how will WOB monitoring help you and your diving???? What do you think your brain is for?? Now I see complancy creeping in....

Of course, everybody would like to buy a Porche for 1 dollar

No, totally in disagreement, not everybody, only some, most do understand they have to pay and make an effort to minimise costs. Those who want Porches for a $1 are referred to as "Tightarses" in OZ, I would imagine you would have similar term in France.

A unit twice cheap than even a KISS, with innovative PPO2 & CO2 monitoring, lowest WOB, weighing below 20 kg, imho very worth considering.

Correct, but at what price, and I am not talking about your finances. Things are yet to proven on the mass market.

Note Well here, the weakest point in any RB is the cells used and already the APOC has added a few more into the mix.

The APOC has the potential to be something very good just as being very bad, time will tell and wish those buying one, all the best.

Main PITA here will be availability & price for consumables like EAC.
I hope by the time when first users will get their units, this will be resolved, there's a promise establish local EAC distribution centres across world.

This was to be resolved when the Optima arrived. The price will not go down, despite the manufacturer being the biggest and probably the only supplier of military organisations in the world, this has been advised by the supplier here in Oz.

With reference to Mel's Book, EAC can still give you a caustic cocktail, again let us not get complacent.

I think you and me will agree that talk is cheap, time to turn discussion into action. Go ahead and buy one and do a review. I will be more than interested to hear what you have to say.

And by the way what is it with French Rugby buying all the Australian League players??? Do you think it will improve France's rankings.

 

[almity1]

Cheers mate, might hit you up via PM with a couple of questions... just for personal interest!

No worries......

 

[almity1]

Hi Mate,

It works fine for me as one....

But then again I am not connected to DL/OS or any of the other associated companies, I am just a little old diver that want's to go dive the Apoc & playing with the Co2 monitor when it's shipped {who also likes posting info about the Apoc when it fits in} - so if they ever get around to formally marketing the rig that's OpenSafeties business.

Regards
Brad

Hi Brad

My apologies if I have this wrong.

I think my wife was referring to the fact you mentioned taking 100% 02 to 8m giving you a PP02 of 1.8 well above the 1.3/1.4 even the 1.6 that is recommended. It doesn't take much to spike to 2.0 with additional depth and 02 hits have happened with less.

This is may have been a typing mistake, we are all human after all.

We all want to see a healthy discussion on all rebreathers and we want people like yourself people able to post on the forum when the diving is done.

 

[Brad_Horn]

The point made was that being made was the Apoc is less than $1000 US, when in reality this is not the case.

Great Marketing Ploy to suck you in, already I have my guard up..

Sorry, but in reality the Long Case Apocalypse mCCR (with a WOB of 1.38J/L) is currently US$995 opensafety.eu / Sports Diving / Rebreathers , download the datasheet to see everything that is included: ALVBOV, harness, wing, o2 cylinder, O2 integrated valve, diluent 1st stage, shipping case, manual add valve etc etc

What is additional is electronics, where you have the choice of the OS Rebreather Monitor which includes Co2 as well as PPo2 monitoring for US$1490 (it will even tell you your decompression obligation or helium content of your loop) or going aftermarket and getting an eCCR 'Occams Razor' Apocalypse head for GBP2k or down the track something HammerHead from J.M. or something X1.

Note Well here, the weakest point in any RB is the cells used and already the APOC has added a few more into the mix.

I guess that is the reason why O.R. rebreathers don't use temp compensation on the Oxygen Cells, and instead incorporate it in the Rebreather Monitor, which allows the diver to still know his PPo2 with only 1 in 3 Oxygen Cells working.....

It might interest you to look at this 6 year Oxygen Cell study DeepLife did deeplife.co.uk/or_dv.php 4th link down

This was to be resolved when the Optima arrived. The price will not go down, despite the manufacturer being the biggest and probably the only supplier of military organisations in the world, this has been advised by the supplier here in Oz.

Lets see, currently 400-500 odd Optima's, first batch of Apoc's alone is 2500 with the first 200 currently in production. Give it time to build a decent amount of demand noting DL have designed & are selling commercial, professional & sports CCRs that all use the same EAC, granted the price might not come down much but at least the demand will be there to make it an option for cheaper supply with the increased economy of scale.

With reference to Mel's Book, EAC can still give you a caustic cocktail, again let us not get complacent.

Sure, but it has been proven that on the O.R. CCR's, you can flood the loop completely & provided you drain the water in under 5min, you can continue diving: no caustic cocktail, no increase in WOB.
Leave the EAC sitting in a flooded loop >5min and you have an issue, granted.

I think my wife was referring to the fact you mentioned taking 100% 02 to 8m giving you a PP02 of 1.8 well above the 1.3/1.4 even the 1.6 that is recommended. It doesn't take much to spike to 2.0 with additional depth and 02 hits have happened with less.

This is may have been a typing mistake, we are all human after all.

No mistake, I have many an hour finning between 0 - 8m on 100% o2 on a rebreather, granted it is not something commonly taught nowadays in Tech Diving, but you don't have to look to far to find references: Oxygen and the Diver by Donald is a pretty good read.

Regards
Brad

 

[paulraymaekers]

Sure, but it has been proven that on the O.R. CCR's, you can flood the loop completely & provided you drain the water in under 5min, you can continue diving: no caustic cocktail, no increase in WOB.

Brad, can you show me where that is proven? i'm also interested in EAC, but what you state seems a bit... exxagerated

take a plate with 1 cm water in it, put the EAC on it for 4 minutes, take the EAC away and drink it
does not taste so good!

paul

ps, anyway, if you really flood the loop, your cells are dead, so bail-out anyway

 

[Brad_Horn]

Brad, can you show me where that is proven? i'm also interested in EAC, but what you state seems a bit... exxagerated

take a plate with 1 cm water in it, put the EAC on it for 4 minutes, take the EAC away and drink it
does not taste so good!

paul

ps, anyway, if you really flood the loop, your cells are dead, so bail-out anyway

Paul,

Will try and find the link, it was conducted as part of the DeepLife commercial Bell Divers Rebreather testing. The diver who flooded the loop was being a smartass, so they emptied the loop and the same diver did the next dive using the same drained EAC.

You don't drink the water post flood, you drain the loop and then breathe through the EAC, you should (and i look forward to seeing quite how dry you can get the loop) have a normal CCR to breathe off, once the loop is drained post flood {if you ever get a flood}.

Considering the Monitor PPo2 & Co2 pods are factory installed on the loop hoses instead of the elbows, to wash the ALVBOV you flush through the loop with water, it will be interesting to see how the cells behave!

Regards
Brad

 

[Brad_Horn]

Has anyone actually seen one of these units working? The CO2 on display at DEMA apparently had "battery" issues or something. I realize lots of orders have been taken but I have yet to even see a picture of a complete functional unit. Anyone care to enlighten me?

Dave,

I have played around with the working O.R. professional eCCR a couple of months ago inclusive of the Co2 monitor {which was shown working @ DEMA}, same elecs as the Apoc, just in an eCCR head, rather then 2 pods.

IIRC the Apoc Monitor Co2 pod was damaged during show & tell, the night before DEMA when the electronics were taken out of the Pod after the pics of it working were taken {see Monitor datasheet on www.opensafety.eu}

The PPo2 Pod was shown working at DEMA RebreatherWorld Gallery - APOCALYPSE TYPE IV SPORTS mCCR, CCR MONITOR,CO2,PP02, DEMA 2008 - Powered by PhotoPost

I understand that the first 200 units (of 2500 in the first batch) are currently being manufactured, so looks like production units will be being shipped around 16 weeks from now.

Regards
Brad