Apex Atx200

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Hi to all Apeks supporters/lovers

I found a LDS that sells/services Apeks.
I asked for prices and info. - sell me on the ATX200 Why pay more for it?
The LDS has a $200. difference between ATX50 and ATX200.
Is it worth spending the extra $ for the ATX200? I can afford it but, hey, why spend the extra $ if I don't need to.
I'm diving recreationally - 130 feet max. right now. I don't see myself going technical (no reason to).
Sooooooo convince me!!
- I read the web site of Apeks and there isn't any obvious, major differences between the APX50 and APX200. I talked to the LDS that carries Apeks and he could'nt see a major difference in the two.
Soooooo convince me!!! PLEASE!!!! ;)
 
Originally posted by barb
Hi to all Apeks supporters/lovers

I found a LDS that sells/services Apeks.


Great. Did one of those phone numbers work?



Is it worth spending the extra $ for the ATX200? I can afford it but, hey, why spend the extra $ if I don't need to.

- I read the web site of Apeks and there isn't any obvious, major differences between the APX50 and APX200.
Soooooo convince me!!! PLEASE!!!! ;)

These are the differences as I understand them.

The ATX 50 and ATX 100 use the same first stages as the TX 50 and TX 100 which are the DST and TX 100 respectively. Only the second stages are 25% lighter in these ATX regs. The ATX 200 1st and 2nd stages are however both lighter.

Some people don't like the DST first stage as it has a swivelling turret top to allow for more comfortable hose routing as you move your head. The knock against them is supposedly that the swivel represents a potential failure point and may leak although I've never heard of it happening. I wonder if this is just over reacting? Minimalist divers may not want it. (If you don't have one it can't break on you.)

However you can order the ATX/TX 50 second stage with a DS4 1st stage which is basically the same as the DST but without the turret. It may have slightly less flexibility for hose routing (or probably more accurately a little less comfort from tugging hoses). I think that this is the reg that a lot of DIR guys like.

The TX 100 and ATX 200 1st stages are flat head regs with no turret but has angled ports for a somewhat more natural and comfortable hose routing. The ATX 200 1st stage is smaller and 25% lighter than the TX 100 1st stage and supposedly flows air better. (the DST and TX 100 were already among the best in the world at this though so I don't know how important that is.) I believe that the ATX 100 and ATX 200 second stages (and maybe the ATX 50?) are essentially the same only with different covers but, are 25 % lighter than the TX100 second stage (which is basically the same as the TX 50's).

So which is better or which should you get? I don't know. How important is weight to you? You said you like the small second stage so get an ATX series. But do you get an ATX 50/DST, ATX 50/DS4, ATX 100 or ATX 200? Any one of these will probably be a very good reg for a recreational diver. As I understand it the only significant difference between the 4 choices will be the first stage although all 4 are environmentally sealed. The ATX 200 will be the best and lightest combination. Do you want to pay that much for the extra few ounces lost? The ATX 100 may be a good compromise, a flat head, no-turret reg with a light second stage.
 
Hi Barb

I have two DS4 and two Atx200's. But you see i know some guys at the LDS here and the difference between these two regs was nt 200 us dollars! In fact i bought my DS4 for 200us dollars and my atx200 for about 300 dollars. So 200 dollars extra worth the Atx200? No not really. BUT i strongly !!! suggest to get the DS4 and not the "normal"tx50 version. Also you may wanna consider as everyone said the atx50 second stage. BTW all the second stages of the Advanced line are basically the same. If you ever change the cover you might wanna buy a atx100/200 cover and you have an atx100/atx200. But important is that you get a DS4!
Also: there is now at diveinn an ATX50 with the DS4 version!

GOOD thing about Apeks is : whatever Apeks you choose in the future you cant go wrong with it (except the tx20 that i dont like)

Good luck, Xerxes
 
Originally posted by xerxes
Hi Barb

I have two DS4 and two Atx200's. But you see i know some guys at the LDS here and the difference between these two regs was nt 200 us dollars! In fact i bought my DS4 for 200us dollars and my atx200 for about 300 dollars. So 200 dollars extra worth the Atx200? No not really.

Good luck, Xerxes

I believe that she is talking about Cdn $200 or about US $130.
 
The way I understood it, the ATX series second stage regs are smaller and lighter than the TX series... And we have no question that this is in fact, the case.

However, the new ATX200 is, I've heard, the smallest of the bunch thus far. I understood that it's even smaller than the ATX100, the previous "flagship" of the line. It's reputed that the newest ATX200 is by far the most simple and straightforward design, with the best breathing of the bunch, which is supposed to be the strongpoint of Apeks regs anyway.

I also understand that the new ATX200 gets a cool looking "black chrome" treatment.

I haven't seen any of these in person, much less used them. However, this is the information that I've gathered. I believe it to be correct, but if I'm not, someone please let me know!

Here's a breakdown of what I believe to be the case:

1. Apeks makes two distinct lines of regs (I'm talking about "second stages" of the regs)... The TX and the ATX. The TX is their original design, and the ATX is made of different materials and thus is both lighter and smaller.

2. A "20" series reg is designed for warm water environments only, because it has no heat sink built in that's designed to warm the air rushing past the second stage and into your mouth. All other Apeks regs have heat sinks, which warm the air for your comfort and also help to prevent freezing of vital parts in the regs in really cold water. Keep in mind, however, that Apeks is saying that "warm water" means "50 degrees F" or higher. Most people diving in subtropical environments or higher will rarely see temps lower, unless you're talking at the bottom of a murky lake or something. There are no adjustments on the 20 series to speak of.

3. A "40" series reg gets you a heat sink for cooler waters, both to warm the air slightly for your comfort and also to keep things functioning properly in the second stage (helping to prevent freeflow.) A "40" series reg also gives you a diver-adjustable venturi which allows you to adjust for either freeflowing breathability or create a little turbulence inside the reg so that it doesn't freeflow easily when you drop the reg in the water at the surface or something. Both adjustments have their advantages. It seems that most divers dive with the reg as freeflowing as possible, but turn the "sensitivity" of the reg back a little when they surface so that it doesn't freeflow as easily.

4. A "50" series reg is like a "40," with an additional adjustment... The "cracking" adjustment. This is an "on the fly" adjustment that will allow a diver to tune the reg's sensitivity to go from closed to open and flowing... In other words, how hard a diver has to "suck" on the reg to get it to open and deliver air. The question is, how sensitive do you want your reg to be to opening up and delivering air in the first place? I can only imagine that with both a venturi adjustment and a "cracking" adjustment, a diver would be able to fine tune his reg quite to his satisfaction. The "50" series also has a technician-only adjustment inside which helps the reg to maintain "like new" performance as the parts inside wear or age with time. Apparently, if the tech who services your reg knows what he's doing, he can basically fine-tune the reg to feel "like new" every time it's serviced.

5. I do not know the difference between the "50" series regs and the "100" series regs, but I believe there's no funtional difference, only a difference in the quality and expected lifespan of the materials. I do, however, believe that there is a difference in the first stages of the "50" and "100" series. The pictures at the site of the first stages from each of these units show that the "20," "40," and "50" series regs all get a swiveling "turret" style first stage, whereas the "100" series gets a one-piece, better angled first stage which supposedly breathes better and provides less potential problems over time. However, I've heard that you could, for example, mix a "50" series second stage with a "100" series first stage, so apparently you can purchase them seperately, negating the point of going with a "100" series reg. Perhaps someone can elaborate on the differences.

6. The new ATX200 is a whole new animal... This new reg is apparently even smaller and lighter than the rest of the ATX series, has a heat sink, both diver adjustments and the technician adjustment, and the top of the line, non-turreting, natural-hose routing first stage. The reg also apparently gets this cool looking "black chrome" treatment.

That's what I believe to be the case... Someone please tell me if I'm wrong.

Personally, I like the "20" series regs, and am attracted to the smaller sized regs even though I'm a big guy with a big face. I'd have to see them in person in order to go with the right one. I like the lack of adjustments... I feel that's a simpler design, and I've found that manufacturers tend to tune the venturis of their nonadjustable models at a happy medium between flowability and resistance to freeflowing, and I've enjoyed nonadjustable models over having an adjustable model which never seems to be tuned right. I will tell you, however, that I intend on doing deep dives in the next few years, and in many cases it'll be in low vis or darkwater... So the unit may operate below temps of 50*F regularly, so I might move up to the ATX40 just for the heat sink and the extra assurance that my reg's gonna work. I will also tell you that I'm very much attracted to the new ATX200 because it's supposedly even smaller than the ATX40, and the hose routing is a bit more natural. There's also a difference in the quality of the materials, which I like. The new color is cool, but that really doesn't make much difference to me. Lastly, the extra reassurance that I've got the best available for my dives is nice... That might be some extra peace of mind at 220 feet, and that's worth something to me too.

So I personally need to see both the ATX40 and the ATX200 and probably use them to see if I can justify the price difference. I'd also like to see the size difference between the ATX and TX series and see if I really do want a smaller reg. I understand that deeper divers like larger regs.

Either way, I very much like their 5000ST secondary and will probably be purchasing one of those as well. Or maybe the Sentinel... Again, I'd have to see them in person
 
Originally posted by SeaJay

However, the new ATX200 is, I've heard, the smallest of the bunch thus far. I understood that it's even smaller than the ATX100, the previous "flagship" of the line. It's reputed that the newest ATX200 is by far the most simple and straightforward design, with the best breathing of the bunch, which is supposed to be the strongpoint of Apeks regs anyway.
The ATX 200 first stage is smaller than the ATX 100 first stage. The second stages are supposed to be the same on both regs except for the covers. See http://www.apeks.co.uk/apekshome.htm Select regulators or from the menu on the left and then select ATX 100. You can see the TX 100, ATX 100 and ATX 200 on this page. The ATX 200 page says

"As with the ATX100 and the ATX50 the ATX200 retains our well proven combination of diver adjustable venturi and cracking resistance controls. The Integrated Venturi System (IVS) controls the air flow through the second stage, allowing air to flow directly through the mouthpiece or be re-directed against the diaphragm. The venturi therefore acts as a pre-dive switch. Set in the minus position the second stage cannot freeflow if accidentally dropped in the water. When the diver begins to use the regulator the lever can then be switched to the plus position and the second stage then gives full Venturi assistance to the diver, reducing breathing effort. The Cracking Resistance Control (CRC) adjusts the spring load on the valve assembly and so varies the cracking resistance. This eliminates the need for a heavier spring and thereby again reduces breathing effort."

The ATX 200 first stage is lighter and has more adjustments than the ATX 100 first stage (which is the same one as the TX 100). Look at the photos.

I also understand that the new ATX200 gets a cool looking "black chrome" treatment.
Yes this is correct

Here's a breakdown of what I believe to be the case:

1. Apeks makes two distinct lines of regs (I'm talking about "second stages" of the regs)... The TX and the ATX. The TX is their original design, and the ATX is made of different materials and thus is both lighter and smaller.
Yes this is correct.

2. A "20" series reg is designed for warm water environments only, because it has no heat sink built in that's designed to warm the air rushing past the second stage and into your mouth. All other Apeks regs have heat sinks, which warm the air for your comfort and also help to prevent freezing of vital parts in the regs in really cold water. Keep in mind, however, that Apeks is saying that "warm water" means "50 degrees F" or higher. Most people diving in subtropical environments or higher will rarely see temps lower, unless you're talking at the bottom of a murky lake or something. There are no adjustments on the 20 series to speak of.

3. A "40" series reg gets you a heat sink for cooler waters, both to warm the air slightly for your comfort and also to keep things functioning properly in the second stage (helping to prevent freeflow.) A "40" series reg also gives you a diver-adjustable venturi which allows you to adjust for either freeflowing breathability or create a little turbulence inside the reg so that it doesn't freeflow easily when you drop the reg in the water at the surface or something. Both adjustments have their advantages. It seems that most divers dive with the reg as freeflowing as possible, but turn the "sensitivity" of the reg back a little when they surface so that it doesn't freeflow as easily.
These 2 are not quite correct. I own a T20 octo which I had converted to a TX40 octo by buying the heat exchanger. The T20 has the venturi adjustment. Go to the web site above and look at the T20 or T20-octo. You can see the adjustment tab for the venturi on the side of the reg opposite the hose.

4. A "50" series reg is like a "40," with an additional adjustment... The "cracking" adjustment. This is an "on the fly" adjustment that will allow a diver to tune the reg's sensitivity to go from closed to open and flowing... In other words, how hard a diver has to "suck" on the reg to get it to open and deliver air. The question is, how sensitive do you want your reg to be to opening up and delivering air in the first place
Yes this is correct.

5. I do not know the difference between the "50" series regs and the "100" series regs, but I believe there's no funtional difference, only a difference in the quality and expected lifespan of the materials.
This is not correct according to what I was told when I bought my reg (a TX100). The TX 50 and TX 100 have the same second stage except for the cover.

I do, however, believe that there is a difference in the first stages of the "50" and "100" series. The pictures at the site of the first stages from each of these units show that the "20," "40," and "50" series regs all get a swiveling "turret" style first stage, whereas the "100" series gets a one-piece, better angled first stage which supposedly breathes better and provides less potential problems over time.
The TX 100's get the flat head 1st stage. the 40's and 50's get the DST but I think that the 20's get the UST.

6. The new ATX200 is a whole new animal... This new reg is apparently even smaller and lighter than the rest of the ATX series, has a heat sink, both diver adjustments and the technician adjustment, and the top of the line, non-turreting, natural-hose routing first stage. The reg also apparently gets this cool looking "black chrome" treatment.
See above. Apparently only the first stages are different.

Personally, I like the "20" series regs, and am attracted to the smaller sized regs even though I'm a big guy with a big face. I'd have to see them in person in order to go with the right one. I like the lack of adjustments... I feel that's a simpler design, and I've found that manufacturers tend to tune the venturis of their nonadjustable models at a happy medium between flowability and resistance to freeflowing, and I've enjoyed nonadjustable models over having an adjustable model which never seems to be tuned right.
In tropical water the T20 may be okay but the TX 40 costs so little more I'd go for it to get the heat sink. As I said above the 20 has a venturi adjustment, at least my octo does. I'm not sure but I think the T20 comes with the UST 1st stage rather than the DST and is not environmentally sealed. The only reason I bought a T20 octo is that Aqualung was only stocking T20's in Canada last year. I quickly had it converted to a TX40 octo.
 
I really appreciate that. I've been trying to gather information all over the place, and it's not been easy. I really appreciate you helping me to get this right... That way, I know what to ask for.

Okay, for me, a TX20 or ATX20 is out because I want the heat exchanger for doing deeper dives, particualarly in the lakes of Central and Northwest South Carolina. I also want an environmentally sealed first stage to help reduce contamination and corrosion problems caused by the local salt water dives.

To me, an ATX40 looks to be the best deal. I might want to try the ATX50 and see what that extra adjustment does for me.

But I really like the solid design of the first stages of the ATX100 and ATX200... Couldn't care less about the few ounces or the color... I don't care to impress the fish with the color of my first stage, and I'm a big guy and don't care about the extra weight. The only reason I think I'd like the ATX series over the TX series is because it might increase vis or generally be less "in the way."

...So I have a feeling that I'm going to be wanting the ATX40 or the ATX100, or the ATX200 if the price is the same or they stop making the ATX100. I'm going to have to check them out in person to really be able to decide.

But thanks for the info... That's a huge help.
 
Originally posted by SeaJay
Thanks, Goldminer

I really appreciate that. I've been trying to gather information all over the place, and it's not been easy. I really appreciate you helping me to get this right... That way, I know what to ask for.

You're welcome. This info is correct to the best of my knowledge but check it with your dealer. I am not certain about the lack of environmental sealing on the T20 but believe it is not available.
 
Gee Xerxes, Can you get your friend at the LDS to arrange shipping of an ATX200 to Canada for me for $300. U.S. ?
I'm just kidding - I would'nt ask that..... Seriously, Goldminer was correct. I was talking about a difference of $200. Canadian which is = to approx. $130. U.S. This is still a lot of money. I looked at Diveinn.com as they have a good selection of Apeks. However, by the time I factor in the exchange rate, shipping, duty and probably a brockerage fee it comes out almost even. Maybe a $100 Canadian difference. For that I would rather buy from my LDS. Still if anyone knows where I can get a better price I'm listening. My LDS wants $900. Canadian for the ATX200 1st and 2nds stage. I would still have to put an octo on that for another $200. - $300.. So in the end it would cost $1,100 - $1,200 Canadian for a reg. OUCH that hurts - no trip to Mexico for me!
The ATX50 was $700. Canadian and I was considering this but I'm concerned about drag on my mouth/hose routing. The ATX200 definitely appears better for this.
Whatever, I have to make a decision soon as my husband is getting a little tired of sharing his reg - especially since I've added my computer (air integrated) to his 1st stage.
Also, he wants to go diving with me!
 

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