APEKS tek3 creep

[LanceRiley]

I’m sure you can borrow the spg of your left post

In a 1st stage there’s a HP section (before HP seat) and LP after
For eg in a Piston reg The piston head would use a 70sh, but the piston stem a 90sh for example

A bubble check might indicate a LP or HP leak, but that’s not necessarily the creep cause (ok probably yes)
But what I meant by drift is: it can just be taking its time to fully seat and lockup, not performing as it should, but no actual leak
(Maybe even the seat hasn’t taken a set yet — it was cycled right?)

You have to forgive me I’m approaching the limit of my knowledge/experience here — but I have nothing against making (partially) educated guesses
Maybe an actual Apeks user can step in and help out

Haha no worries i myself am baffled by this. Some local tech would say if it doesnt free flow un an hr thats good to go…. Too much time.

Yes it was cycled 100times at least purge botton. Short and long purges + all the tests we did includes several purges after every adjustments

Ok will try the 24hr thing with a borrowed spg

 

[LanceRiley]

with all the info... i redid everything
read my technical manual word for word... (apeks xtx200)

disassembled my 2nd stage.
Made sure the venturi lever was aligned with the plastic part that covers the spindle hole.... right for right
made sure square notch on the left... aligned with the spindle collar dimple on the right

assembled everything.

i think this is where i missed out.. spring adjuster for micro adjust insert flush with the adjusting knob. then ADD 6 turns. so that the micro adjust is fully inserted. actually mine just made 5 1/4.

inserted orifice

assembled spindle in the casing... adjusted orifice to make e sure top of lever was on level with case rim.

200 bar tank. pressurized. hmmm... no hiss or whatsoever... so i readjusted orifice to move back a bit.until i could hear a slight hiss... turned clockwise to push in the orifice.. bit by bit... no hiss... then added 1/16 or 1/8 more turn for good measure

purge was strong and forceful. carefully turned back the micro adjust while checking inhalation efforrt by resistance guage.

i played around 1.0 1.1 and 1.2

settled somewhere between 1.0 and 1.1 since this is doubles right post primary reg.

Now... regulator will purge forcefully when purged in the middle... slight purge when purge sides are pressed.

free flows when i bump the purge with my hand while mouthpiece is facing up..


so I guess my problem was my orifice was too far in.. my original assembly i didnt dial all the wayin the micro adjust.


but now.... what about the IP.... after doing all this..... ???


My IP is sitting steadily at 9.29 -9.32 bar for 20mins now..... .so how is the 2nd stage affecting my IP? how is the orifice inserted too deeply affecting even anything??

 

[Mobulai]

My IP is sitting steadily at 9.29 -9.32 bar for 20mins now

Seems that the seat has finally taken a set — that’s my guess
How did it do overnight?

i think this is where i missed out.. spring adjuster for micro adjust insert flush with the adjusting knob. then ADD 6 turns. so that the micro adjust is fully inserted. actually mine just made 5 1/4

Where was this before? Was it fully in before like now or backed away (out)?

If it was “out” before then that would explain why you had to move the orifice

I guess the part that I didn’t mention (and didn’t expect) is that the orifice should be backed out (even beyond max lever height spot) just till it hisses

I’m quite sure the orifice has nothing to do with IP — just 2 events happening at the same time

 

[LanceRiley]

Seems that the seat has finally taken a set — that’s my guess
How did it do overnight?


Where was this before? Was it fully in before like now or backed away (out)?

If it was “out” before then that would explain why you had to move the orifice

I guess the part that I didn’t mention (and didn’t expect) is that the orifice should be backed out (even beyond max lever height spot) just till it hisses

I’m quite sure the orifice has nothing to do with IP — just 2 events happening at the same time

well.. i wasnt able to do the overnight thing... actually after the chat yesterday... i manage to let it stay for 2.5 hrs. from 9.2 it would climb to 9.6 max. now what did i do?? dialled the micro adjuster all the way out.... some how.. reading a lot of stuff yesterday, i read somewhere that orifice that is driven in too much can cause IP CREEP or i could be wrong. theoretically... who would leave their stuff pressurized for 2.5 hrs? but it does happen... after a dive.. you leave your stuff while you change, eat or do other stuff.... but im not happy with the 0.4 bar variance.. nor does apeks manual.....

so anyway.. yesterday night went over the apeks manual.. reread every procedure. theoretically the spring tension is what matters. its just a matter of push between the orifice and the micro adjust... if the whole assembly is move to favor more on the micro adjust size or the orifice side, the spring tension would remain the same.

hence assembling it with the micro adjust full out. puts my orifice way more "out" Position.... then slowly unscrew the micro adjust to get the final 1.2 wob. and i did peep in the mouthpiece hole.... the lever was touching the demand diaphragm.

 

[Mobulai]

Ok let me simplify (and forgive the very crude sketch)
For the same spring, orifice, .. the same spring compression is needed for the same IP to get you the same WoB:
Effectively, you need the same distance from orifice edge to balanced chamber edge
You move the micro adjustment right, then the orifice has to move right — and vice versa

So by moving both in the same direction you get the same tuning — has nothing to do with IP
If you move both in, you get a higher cracking effort

Now tight orifice causing IP creep, I’m sorry but that couldn’t be further from true

An orifice that’s not sealing right can cause an IP creep to go un noticed (maybe)
You need one that actually seals to be able to discover a creep
The only function of a 2nd stage when testing/tuning a 1st is to act as a pressure relief valve; when the IP creeps (as in Starts to get to 180+PSI/13+bar; and keeps rising) is that you don’t burst a hose or something, and eventually vent and depressurize the system

You’re still getting the same IP (drift/creep?) in 1st stage regardless— tge overnight test will tell us if the IP will go higher or stabilize

BTW, only when the 1st stage is “set” and done you can actually start tuning the 2nd stage — tuning 2nds is dependent on the IP supply

 

[Mobulai]

who would leave their stuff pressurized for 2.5 hrs?

A drop stage maybe

but im not happy with the 0.4 bar variance..

I’m not either, but the 0.4 bar wouldn’t cause issues then if you don’t breathe from it for a long time

If you have already a balanced 2nd stage the variance in IP shouldn’t affect the breathing performance

It’s a question of weather you want the 1st stage to be at its peak performance or not

 

[LanceRiley]

A drop stage maybe


I’m not either, but the 0.4 bar wouldn’t cause issues then if you don’t breathe from it for a long time

If you have already a balanced 2nd stage the variance in IP shouldn’t affect the breathing performance

It’s a question of weather you want the 1st stage to be at its peak performance or not

Well anyway it doesnt creep that way anymore. I must have left it pressurize for more than 8hrs to make it set. Iys 9.28-9.32 is pretty stable. Sometimes having a digital ip guage we get too anal about it

 

[LanceRiley]

Ok let me simplify (and forgive the very crude sketch)
For the same spring, orifice, .. the same spring compression is needed for the same IP to get you the same WoB:
Effectively, you need the same distance from orifice edge to balanced chamber edge
You move the micro adjustment right, then the orifice has to move right — and vice versa
View attachment 909544
So by moving both in the same direction you get the same tuning — has nothing to do with IP
If you move both in, you get a higher cracking effort

Now tight orifice causing IP creep, I’m sorry but that couldn’t be further from true

An orifice that’s not sealing right can cause an IP creep to go un noticed (maybe)
You need one that actually seals to be able to discover a creep
The only function of a 2nd stage when testing/tuning a 1st is to act as a pressure relief valve; when the IP creeps (as in Starts to get to 180+PSI/13+bar; and keeps rising) is that you don’t burst a hose or something, and eventually vent and depressurize the system

You’re still getting the same IP (drift/creep?) in 1st stage regardless— tge overnight test will tell us if the IP will go higher or stabilize

BTW, only when the 1st stage is “set” and done you can actually start tuning the 2nd stage — tuning 2nds is dependent on the IP supply

Yes i understand this now. If micro adjust and orifice move i
The same distance and same direction., the tune is same.

But i also realize the whole assembly needs to be in a certain position. More like nearer the orifice side. Since the position of the whole assembly also controls the lever