Apeks HP Seat failure: rumor or fact?

[GF99/99]

I just went through this with an XTX 200. I love the reg and I sent it to rsingler to replace the HP seat with a newer style one. My reg was new but no way of telling which HP seat it had. We do know the white backed Apeks service kits are the newest ones and that is what he used. My reg was purchased new in 2021 but I had no way of knowing if it was new old stock or not

If it is from 2021 chances are it is good.

The white card kits have been out for a while now. I was buying these white card kits years ago. But I have noticed in the last year or so the kits have changes the still have the white card but the bag is now white (non see through) the previous ones I was buying were white card with clear bag. Both both clear bag and non clear I have never had an issue with

But either way I have never had an HP seat failure and I own 12 Apeks first stage variants and all of my friends and many of them own dive centers use tons and tons of Apeks regs and none of us have ever seen this HP seat failure.

Also I am still very curious to see a pictures of this HP seat failure that everyone seems to be having

 

[Shabaday]

If it is from 2021 chances are it is good.

The white card kits have been out for a while now. I was buying these white card kits years ago. But I have noticed in the last year or so the kits have changes the still have the white card but the bag is now white (non see through) the previous ones I was buy were white card with clear bag.

But either way I have never had an HP seat failure and I own 12 Apeks first stage variants and all of my friends and many of them own dive centers use tons and tons of Apeks regs and none of us have ever seen this HP seat failure.

Also I am still very curious to see a pictures of this HP seat failure that everyone seems to be having

Thanks for this confidence. I feel better. I know the service kit had white card but clear see through bag. I had put on the fifth port which comes with a new hp seat but I had no way too date that either so like I said I had rsingler use a new one out of a white card see through bag

 

[GF99/99]

Thanks for this confidence. I feel better. I know the service kit had white card but clear see through bag. I had put on the fifth port which comes with a new hp seat but I had no way too date that either so like I said I had rsingler use a new one out of a white card see through bag

Should be fine. Both see through bag and white bag I have never had an issue nor has anyone I know had an issue.

For reference my last Apeks order with the new white bags

 

[Shabaday]

Rob used the white kit on the right

 

[Pearlman]

They look fine, no blown out sides, just the single round dimple from the seat. I may still have some laying around. It made no sense, but it was happening regularly. After the change, just like old times with no issues.
I saw a buddy who had a first stage seat failure on his (Apex) reg. which was only a year old. I thought it was very unusual, but apparently I was completely ignorant of the situation.

Your buddy who had this failure - was it in water? What were the visible symptoms at the time?

Makes sense. Is it a used reg?

Sorry I didn’t make it clear - it’s a brand new reg possibly stock obtained before the lockdown thing started in 2020 so I worry this may have those defective parts.

It was a runaway IP, not something you would catch prior to failure. One day it works, the next it doesn't.

If not inspecting a reg with an IP guage - what can a diver expect once he submerges when this happens? How will the reg behave?

Do you have an IP gauge? Check the pressure. If it locks up, you're good. If it creeps, factor the price of an overhaul into your purchase. If it creeps you might use a 6mm wrech to remove the top cap so you can inspect the crown with a loupe.

I think I will get one for routine regulator checks as per the published scubaboard checklist. This issue makes me wary of just depending on the word of a remote service center that looks at my reg just once a year.

About opening the top cap and checking the crown - do I look for a dimple as quoted by FM Tracy above?

 

[Still Kicking]

Your buddy who had this failure - was it in water? What were the visible symptoms at the time?


Sorry I didn’t make it clear - it’s a brand new reg possibly stock obtained before the lockdown thing started in 2020 so I worry this may have those defective parts.



If not inspecting a reg with an IP guage - what can a diver expect once he submerges when this happens? How will the reg behave?



I think I will get one for routine regulator checks as per the published scubaboard checklist. This issue makes me wary of just depending on the word of a remote service center that looks at my reg just once a year.

About opening the top cap and checking the crown - do I look for a dimple as quoted by FM Tracy above?

A damaged seat would have a dimple but that is replaced during overhaul so its not a big deal. Thats why i said factor an overhaul into your purchase price.

The crown is machined into the body of the reg and cannot be replaced. It is deep down inside the body. You would be looking for corrosion or scratches from a tool (no reason to use a tool there but who knows why people do what they do).

The IP lockup will tell you if the crown and seat are mating properly. Creep signals a problem that may or may not be correctable.

If these issues are foreign to you it's better to buy new with a warranty. I tell people when you buy used a lot of time you are buying someone else's problem.

 

[Pearlman]

A damaged seat would have a dimple but that is replaced during overhaul so its not a big deal. Thats why i said factor an overhaul into your purchase price.


If these issues are foreign to you it's better to buy new with a warranty. I tell people when you buy used a lot of time you are buying someone else's problem.

Thanks for the advice - Yes I am buying a new one only. My concern was that whatever substandard parts were part of the service kit may have made it into the inventory of the factory assembled parts as well and thus a brand new reg could fail on me during a dive… hence I was hoping to understand the symptoms of this specific failure when in use on a dive.

In any case - in the event of failure just the seat can be replaced correct or a complete rebuild with the new kit should take care of it, as you say. So I guess I will go ahead with the buy depending on price negotiations.

 

[flymolo]

Thanks for the advice - Yes I am buying a new one only. My concern was that whatever substandard parts were part of the service kit may have made it into the inventory of the factory assembled parts as well and thus a brand new reg could fail on me during a dive… hence I was hoping to understand the symptoms of this specific failure when in use on a dive.

In any case - in the event of failure just the seat can be replaced correct or a complete rebuild with the new kit should take care of it, as you say. So I guess I will go ahead with the buy depending on price negotiations.

I'm not sure if it's realistic to expect a price negotiation based on an issue that apeks themselves haven't acknowledged. That being said dealers are sometimes willing to cut a deal on a price outside of that.

I also wouldn't expect a seat failure to happen immediately. Usually by the time it would, it'd probably be a good idea to do a full service anyways.

 

[Pearlman]

I'm not sure if it's realistic to expect a price negotiation based on an issue that apeks themselves haven't acknowledged. That being said dealers are sometimes willing to cut a deal on a price outside of that.

I also wouldn't expect a seat failure to happen immediately. Usually by the time it would, it'd probably be a good idea to do a full service anyways.

Not not on the basis of that. In my country pricing is typically just ridiculously bogus as if the seller is deluded and out of touch with reality - it is very common. Although the initial quote from this authorised shop is decently within range for me not to mock. For example I got my Zen BP/W by importing it from Europe and after paying for shipping and almost 40% customs duty on price + shipping cost it was still $300 cheaper than what was quoted to me here. That’s nearly half the price of a mid- range regulator! Likewise while browsing online shops in EU I see prices for some reg sets I would want in the sub 400 eur range while the prices for the same are above $800 here.

One would think that sellers for Scuba gear in my home country would be aware that this is not a cheap hobby and that a scuba hobbyist would automatically fall in an income bracket where he qualifies for a credit card to shop online and also travel International to engage in his hobby where he can easily purchase gear at reasonable prices…but no!

For the DST reg set I am getting a quote that is roughly 30% above International prices so I need to do some negotiations…

Unfortunately I got sharply bitten by the purchase-new-gear bug during lockdown when I haven’t travelled abroad for almost three years now since 2019.. else I would have quietly shopped abroad.

 

[admikar]

Not not on the basis of that. In my country pricing is typically just ridiculously bogus as if the seller is deluded and out of touch with reality - it is very common. Although the initial quote from this authorised shop is decently within range for me not to mock. For example I got my Zen BP/W by importing it from Europe and after paying for shipping and almost 40% customs duty on price + shipping cost it was still $300 cheaper than what was quoted to me here. That’s nearly half the price of a mid- range regulator! Likewise while browsing online shops in EU I see prices for some reg sets I would want in the sub 400 eur range while the prices for the same are above $800 here.

One would think that sellers for Scuba gear in my home country would be aware that this is not a cheap hobby and that a scuba hobbyist would automatically fall in an income bracket where he qualifies for a credit card to shop online and also travel International to engage in his hobby where he can easily purchase gear at reasonable prices…but no!

For the DST reg set I am getting a quote that is roughly 30% above International prices so I need to do some negotiations…

Unfortunately I got sharply bitten by the purchase-new-gear bug during lockdown when I haven’t travelled abroad for almost three years now since 2019.. else I would have quietly shopped abroad.

Not trying to tell you what to do, but 30% local markup might be good deal if you calculate shipping and import taxes. I just got my drysuit from UK and while USA/Canada is quoting 100-200$ taxes for same suit (+/- some options), I paid over 300€ and I live in Europe (not EU)